Evidence of meeting #132 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
Very briefly, I had asked Madam Drouin about the Shawcross standard and how far it goes in exerting pressure. Can I have your input on that as well? Is it a subjective or objective standard, and how far does it go?
12:55 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I think that any communication or conversation, whether it's verbal, text message, email, can be subject to interpretation as to its purpose, its intent, whether there was subtext, whatever. I'm not sure it's ever entirely objective. You can read the same transcript and attribute motive or intent or purpose or whatever.
I predict that the former attorney general will express concern to this committee about three events. The first is the meeting with the Prime Minister, which I am happy to describe in detail because I was there for the entire meeting. The second is a conversation between the Prime Minister's Office staff and her former chief of staff on December 18 when she was Minister of Justice. The third is a conversation I had with her in the afternoon of December 19.
How she interprets or perceives those conversations, she can tell you next week. I can tell you my view very firmly is that they were entirely appropriate, lawful, legal. I'm prepared to submit to the judgment of the Ethics Commissioner on that.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
That brings me to Mr. Cooper. I'm sure he has some questions.
12:55 p.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Wernick.
We have the letter of December 6, 2018, where the Prime Minister replied to Mr. Bruce, the CEO of SNC-Lavalin.
Would you also be able to table the letter of October 15, 2018, from Mr. Bruce to the Prime Minister?
12:55 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I am pretty sure I can retrieve it from the correspondence.
12:55 p.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
Thank you very much.
I want to ask about the meeting with the Prime Minister. Can you elaborate on that?
12:55 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Can I take the committee back to September. The meeting was on September 17.
I'll let you in on a secret. I'm trying not be facetious here. The priorities of the government and the Prime Minister in September were NAFTA, NAFTA, NAFTA and NAFTA. It was an all-consuming issue for the Prime Minister and his senior staff. Mr. Butts and Ms. Telford were completely consumed in NAFTA negotiations, which concluded successfully on September 30, and were not available for a lot of the normal business.
I took it upon myself with other people in the Prime Minister's Office to keep the rest of government files moving so in the end the government would not seize up. One of those files was reconciliation with indigenous people.
12:55 p.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
No. I just want to get to the September 17th meeting between Jody Wilson-Raybould and the Prime Minister.
12:55 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Yes, and I will. The purpose of the meeting, and 90% plus of the conversation, was the recognition of rights framework.
12:55 p.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
No. I want it in respect to the SNC-Lavalin matter. I don't care about the rest of it. I want to know about the SNC-Lavalin matter.
12:55 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Yes, and the Prime Minister's characterization of that conversation is entirely the one that I recall.
1 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
He indicated that it was entirely her call to make, that she was the decider. That is a message—
1 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
That is a message that the Prime Minister conveyed to the minister in every situation that I am aware of when it came up,.
1 p.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
Even though, Mr. Wernick, the decision had already been made.
Then you met again with SNC-Lavalin officials the next day. Is that right?
1 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I told them that—
1 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
—I told them that the only—
1 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
If you would let me finish....
I told the company the only route they had was through their lawyers and the court process.
1 p.m.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
At my meeting with the company? No.