Justice Committee on Feb. 21st, 2019

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Clerk. I appreciate it.

Were you informed of the September 4 decision by the director of public prosecutions to not proceed with a deferred prosecution agreement?

[Michael Wernick]

No.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

How did it become known to you?

[Michael Wernick]

National newspaper advertising.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

On what date?

[Michael Wernick]

I think the company placed ads in mid-October. I can verify the timeline for you.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

On September 17...mid-October...national news.... I just want to make sure—

[Michael Wernick]

Actually, if I could correct that, I think that in.... I met the company on September 18—

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Yes, you did.

[Michael Wernick]

—and I don't recall the specific details of whether that decision by the prosecutor had been conveyed to them or not.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Then it's possible that you did know.... Mr. Clerk, I'm going to assume that you knew on September 18 that the director of public prosecutions had said to SNC-Lavalin that it was not going to get a deferred prosecution agreement.

[Michael Wernick]

I don't know whether that was part of the conversation or not. They came to make the pitch, which they made to so many people, that they were not the company that had committed the crimes and was being charged, that there had been a change in the board and in management of the company. They were concerned about the impact on their workers and suppliers, and they did make a pitch for why they were a good candidate for a deferred prosecution agreement.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

You don't remember if they disclosed to you that they had been turned down by your own director of public prosecutions.

[Michael Wernick]

We have no dealings with the DPP—

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

SNC-Lavalin never made it known to you that they had been turned down and that's what prompted their visit to you on September 18.

[Michael Wernick]

They were making the rounds with everybody in town during that month.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

They were making the rounds. I think we have to assume that everybody who was being visited knew why, because that would make sense for why they were setting up these appointments. Knowing that they were coming to ask you to overturn the decision of the director of public prosecutions, at that point in time, you would have known that this would have been an extraordinary move by the Attorney General, which can only be accomplished by the Prime Minister.

[Michael Wernick]

I remember the conversation being their basic pitch, which they made to everybody, that it was not the company that had committed the crimes, that there was going to be a serious impact on suppliers and workers and communities, and that it was a good candidate for a deferred prosecution agreement.

I remember telling them in the firmest possible terms, very bluntly and very directly, that this was a decision for the DPP, and there were powers for the Minister of Justice related to this and that they should go and make their representations to the DPP through the court process.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Did anybody take notes of that meeting, Mr. Clerk?

[Michael Wernick]

I don't know.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Did you have anybody else in the meeting with you?

[Michael Wernick]

Yes. The meeting was with Neil Bruce, Erik Ryan and Sam Boutziouvis from SNC-Lavalin, and I was accompanied by my deputy secretary of operations, Catrina Tapley.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Is it possible that the deputy secretary of operations took notes?

[Michael Wernick]

It's possible.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Would you be willing to have those tabled here?