Justice Committee on Feb. 27th, 2019

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

You mentioned earlier, in my first round, that you felt it was entirely appropriate to have the conversation about the jobs and those types of impacts—I'm paraphrasing here. Then you mentioned Minister Morneau and the conversation you had with him on the 19th, which was in the House, I believe you said in the testimony. You said that he mentioned job losses. What made you feel that this conversation was inappropriate?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Inappropriate?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Yes.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

To the first point about mentioning jobs and job losses, as I said in my evidence, including the conversation I had with the Prime Minister, I do not believe it is inappropriate—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Right.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

—to have conversations about job losses, about SNC, in the early stages where ministers can raise these issues with the Attorney General. What is inappropriate is the long sustained discussions about the job losses after it was clear that I had made my decision and was not going to pursue a DPA.

Leaving aside job losses, the conversations that I had, where they became clearly inappropriate, was when political issues came up, like the election in Quebec, like losing the election if SNC were to move their headquarters, conversations like that, conversations like the one I had with the Clerk of the Privy Council, who invoked the Prime Minister's name throughout our conversation and spoke to me about the Prime Minister being dug in and about his concerns as to what would happen. In my mind, those were veiled threats, and I took them as such. That is entirely inappropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much.

Now we move to the second round.

We'll start round two with Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to first go back to the September 17 meeting with the Prime Minister and the Clerk of the Privy Council. You mentioned that it was there that you specifically asked the Prime Minister whether he was interfering and that his answer was that the decision was always yours.

Is that correct?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

That's not exactly what I said. I had raised the background about comments that were made by the Prime Minister and the Clerk, and I know that that has been what has been reported in the media but that's not what was said.

I asked the Prime Minister a direct question after hearing his comments around elections and being the member for Papineau: “Are you interfering with my role as the Attorney General, my decision?”, and I advised him strongly not to do that, so it was my direct question to the Prime Minister.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

He said the decision was always yours. Is that correct?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

He did not say that. He said, no, no, no, that's not what I'm doing.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay. You did mention in your opening statement that throughout the whole time you were Attorney General, you did recognize that the decision was always yours.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I one hundred per cent understood my role as the Attorney General, and it was my decision and my decision alone whether or not to issue a directive.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

You had asked earlier in September for the meeting on September 17, and you said that at that point you had gone on vacation. Did you receive this request for the meeting quite quickly?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I didn't say that I went on vacation. I was actually—

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

You were out of the country.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

—down in Australia for a Five Eyes meeting and happened to, thankfully, have a couple of days off—

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

—when another very important issue arose and I, at that point, asked Gerry Butts directly, via text message, for a one-on-one meeting with the Prime Minister. That was on or around September 6.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay, and then on September 17, you had the meeting, after you came back into the country?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I got back into the country on September 12 and was able to meet with the Prime Minister on September 17.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

What was the main purpose of the meeting?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I am not at liberty to discuss that as the meetings and discussions between the Prime Minister and me, other than what's covered in the waiver with respect to SNC and deferred prosecution agreements, are covered by cabinet confidence.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

When the Clerk of the Privy Council testified here before committee, he mentioned that the main purpose of that meeting was the indigenous rights framework and that SNC-Lavalin was a subject matter that was touched on briefly. Would you be able to say if that was correct or incorrect?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I will say that the Clerk of the Privy Council is at liberty to say whatever he wants. I have indicated that the meeting of September 17 had to do with another extremely important matter but that the Prime Minister raised the issue of SNC and deferred prosecution agreements at the outset of that meeting.