Justice Committee on May 9th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you.

Ms. May.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

The Liberal-1 amendment still uses the word “counsels”, and I appreciate the advice from the Department of Justice, given the concerns from so many professional associations. I'm a former lawyer myself. I know we have a specific meeting around “counsels”. But this does create concerns for people in the profession and as the phrase is “or” not “and”, I don't think it will create confusion with “abet”. It's one or the other and the situation may create redundancies, but certainly no conflict.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much.

Not hearing any further debate, let's move the question.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're going to move on to CPC-4.1.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I withdraw that amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you.

We will now move to Bloc Québécois' first amendment. Mr. Thériault will move amendment BQ-1.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You will recall that the Barreau du Québec advised us to clarify the details of offences related to counselling someone to commit suicide. In keeping with the discussion we just held, and taking into account section 241.1, the Barreau du Québec representatives made a suggestion. As part of honest discussions with patients on all potential care, health professionals should be assured that they are not vulnerable and do not risk being exposed to criminal charges. They must be able to adequately inform their patients if the bill clearly states that counselling an individual to commit suicide constitutes a criminal offence.

The amendment reads as follows:

(2.1) No medical practitioner or nurse practitioner commits an offence under paragraph (1)(a) or (b) if they provide a person with information about the care that is offered in connection with medical assistance in dying.

So this is about being consistent with the spirit of the law.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much, Mr. Thériault.

Are there any comments regarding this amendment?

Mr. Thériault, do you have anything else to add?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Okay.

We will move to the vote.

(Amendment negatived)

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

We will now move to amendment CPC-4.2.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

That's connected to nurse practitioners, and I'll withdraw.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

As is 4.3.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much for your incredible co-operation in allowing us to go faster.

We will move to Liberal-1.

Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to make a modification to what was submitted, so the amendment would now read as follows: “That Bill C-14, in Clause 3, be amended by adding after line 12 on page 4 the following: (5.1) No psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, or other health care professional commits an offence if they provide information to a person on medical assistance in dying.”

I can provide that to the clerk in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Please do.

I judge that it's receivable. If you have a copy to give to the clerk, that would be great. It's so that we can read it back and everybody can assess exactly what was read.

As I understand it, “No psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, or other health care professional commits an offence if they provide information to a person on medical assistance in dying.”

Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

With regard to the proposed amendment, this does respond to what Ms. May was speaking to earlier with regard to the evidence that we heard from various groups, including social workers in particular, who were pretty adamant that they were worried about the term “counselling” and how, in their professional capacity, it could be misunderstood.

I believe this clarifies that this law obviously does not disallow them to provide information to those people who need information in order to make a properly informed decision about receiving medical assistance in dying. I don't believe that there is any harm done by adding this provision in there to provide greater certainty that it doesn't include these people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Mr. Rankin.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I agree entirely and will be voting in favour of the amendment. Thank you for bringing it forward.

This is a friendly amendment that may not be necessary, but I'll flag it because, when I read the words “other health care professional” and tried to apply them to social worker, I was at a loss, because I thought social workers were, in fact, not health care professionals. They have a different category. I wonder if you might consider an amendment to provide broader protection for that group who aren't necessarily working in the health care field.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

The social worker is there, though.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

No, but the way it's worded is “no psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, therapist or other health care professional”. A social worker is not necessarily a health care professional.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

I understand.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Therapists aren't either.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

What was your proposal then, exactly?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I was suggesting taking out the word “other”, saying “or health care professional of any sort”, so as to not flag that we thought that social workers were included in that category.