Justice Committee on May 10th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

We'll figure out the right place to put this afterwards, but it will be later in the section.

So this allows us to move to LIB-6.

Mr. Fraser, I believe you're withdrawing it.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

If I'm permitted, I withdraw that amendment. I wanted to make sure before I did that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

You're not putting LIB-6 forward, which allows us to move to CPC-20.2.

You can move whatever you want.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I've decided that the vagueness of the wording would add extra complexity and, therefore, I'm not putting LIB-6 forward. That's not to suggest that a future amendment couldn't be made.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

So we're going to move to CPC-20.2.

Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'd be happy to elaborate further but I don't think it's a good idea to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

I'll pretend what you said before you said again.

Then LIB-7, Mr. Fraser, is the same idea. So I assume you're also not moving that one.

Now we move to G-2, which I think Mr. Fraser is going to put forward.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

That's correct. What page is that on?

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

It is page 87.

We're at proposed paragraph 241.2(6)(a) in the bill, addressing independence—medical practitioners and nurse practitioners.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

This is from the Liberal G-2, but I'll be advancing this motion to modify the wording by replacing line 20 and 21 on page 7 with the following:

(a) are not a mentor to the other practitioner or responsible for supervising their work

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fraser.

Do you want to speak to it?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Those are my comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Is there any discussion?

Mr. Rankin.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I'm sorry if I missed the explanation for the amendment. Could you just repeat it, Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

We're taking out the business relationship and adding that they “are not a mentor to the other practitioner or responsible for supervising their work”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

It was as a result of the fact that we heard testimony that in small communities there are medical practitioners who practise together and it would be difficult to find a referral where they don't have a relationship that has an independence issue, but they have a business relationship.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you. Understood.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Is there any further discussion on this issue?

Mr. Genuis, you wanted to add a small point?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The removal of the reference to “business relationship” is concerning to me because, effectively, the result would be that you have two doctors who jointly operate a clinic who jointly sign off on each of these orders. The independence provisions are designed to prevent that. Two doctors working together in a business relationship who are doing this together creates some real problems that are avoided by the original wording.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

I know it's not necessarily my role to take, but I believe that proposed paragraph (c) covers that issue.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can you explain that? I don't quite understand that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Sure. It says, “do not know or believe that they are connected to the other practitioner or to the person making the request in any other way that would affect their objectivity”. So if the business relationship was such that it would affect their objectivity, they couldn't then include....

I know it's not my role to explain the bill. I apologize.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I do not agree with that assessment at all, but okay—

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

We're coming up to 10:45, and I want to get through this one before we break.

Is there any other discussion from members of the committee?

Mr. Fraser, do you want to conclude?