Justice Committee on March 10th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rankin.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Saunders and Mr. Dolhai, for your presentations here today.

I'm going to ask a question, building on Ms. Khalid's question.

I think you emphasized, Mr. Saunders, the need for prosecutorial independence; hence, the creation of the DPP Act.

When you are dealing with private sector lawyers as agents, what steps do you take to ensure that the choice of those agents is totally apolitical, so you get the best and the brightest and not those who are perhaps politically aligned?

[Brian Saunders]

As I mentioned, the day we were established in December 2006, we informed the minister's office that from then on, agents would be appointed by our office, because under the statute it says that agents are retained by the director of public prosecutions, so we took that to mean that we don't consult with the attorney general when it comes to appointment of agents. Instead, we run a competition. Agents are appointed on a five-year term, and when the term is up, we have a competition, advertise it, and we evaluate the firms on the basis of their ability. We get references, but in effect, they go through almost the same process a prosecutor working as a staff lawyer would. They have to write a test to show their knowledge of the law. They're evaluated on that test, and then we go to the references. We do a check on their criminal record, and we check with Revenue Canada to make sure there are no outstanding taxes.

We think we do a fairly good job in ensuring that the people we hire as agents are qualified. We know we do a good job in ensuring that hiring is based on their qualifications and not on the basis of any political affiliation.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

The question I want to drill into is the amount of $4.6 million in the supplementary estimates. Do you have data on spending on legal advice and litigation support specifically for prosecuting drug charges, broken down by the type of drug and type of charge? What I'm trying to understand is whether there are ways we can find out, for example, how much you plan on spending on prosecuting possession of marijuana cases next year. Are these data available? Could one obtain these facts?

[Brian Saunders]

I believe last time I appeared before this committee I was asked that question and I gave a number, for simple possession, of $3 million to $4 million, but we can—

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Four million dollars?

[Brian Saunders]

Yes, that's for prosecuting simple possession cases.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Is that the amount you spend annually across the country?

[Brian Saunders]

Yes. Most of the money, most of the prosecution of simple possession cases are done by private sector lawyers, our agents.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

But you still track that cost.

[Brian Saunders]

We track it.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

The legal advice that Mr. Dolhai talked about, your people in head office provide that advice. I assume you'd want to track their hours as well, as part of that calculation.

[Brian Saunders]

Yes.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

So the global figure, you're suggesting, is around $3 million.

[Brian Saunders]

Three to four.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Three to four?

[Brian Saunders]

It varies from year to year.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

This you spend on going after people for simple possession?

[Brian Saunders]

Recall that we don't go after people.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

But these are the charges being laid in respect of simple possession.

[Brian Saunders]

We don't charge people either. Charges are laid by police forces.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

This is to prosecute charges brought by police forces.

[Brian Saunders]

That's a more accurate way of saying it.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Nevertheless, those are the facts.

[Brian Saunders]

Yes.