Evidence of meeting #54 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was french.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
I have one more observation to make.
In Canada, the case law of the Civil Code is excellent and is recognized throughout the world, but primarily in the French-speaking world. There are a huge number of judgments that are known mainly in the French-speaking world, because we have not found funding to translate the excellent case law of the Civil Code. This case law can affect judgments in English. Can you tell me what you think about this?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Association des juristes d'expression française de l'Ontario
If I understood correctly, you are asking me about common law judgments that are not available either in French or in English.
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Association des juristes d'expression française de l'Ontario
Ah, you are talking about common law judgments in English that are not translated into French.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Mr. Boissonnault's question dealt with judgments in French from jurisdictions that have the Civil Code, including Quebec, and are not translated into English.
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Association des juristes d'expression française de l'Ontario
I can't really comment on civil law. For our part, we focus on common law provinces and territories. Perhaps the Quebec Community Groups Network should be asked whether needs exist in the area or it is lacking.
That is my response to that.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you.
Thanks very much for coming this afternoon.
To Mr. Benton, how much does the federal government actually provide in funding for legal aid? Is it for criminal matters? Is it for civil matters?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
I can't give you this year's numbers—I just don't have them in my briefcase—but I can give you last year's numbers.
Let me put the numbers aside and tell you that there is a federal-provincial contribution agreement that covers criminal law and immigration law. It is a relatively complicated formula that divides a fixed sum of money among the provinces. There's a separate sum for the territories for those two areas. For immigration, six provinces are involved—none of the territories are—and they divide a sum among them based on another relatively complex formula.
Civil and family legal aid was at one time funded through a fifty-fifty cost-sharing agreement. In the mid-1990s it was rolled into the Canada assistance plan, where it stayed. No sum is identified for that, but in the federal-provincial discourse, as I'm sure it won't surprise you, the federal government says there's money in there for civil legal aid and the provinces say, “Show me”. The legal aid plans rely on the provinces for the money and don't get engaged in those discussions.
I hope that's a helpful response to your question about how it's paid.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
I can certainly provide the details of what's paid.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Okay.
Are there caps put on? When a person comes in and makes an application, what is the income threshold for them to be...?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
There are 13, one for each province and territory.
In British Columbia, the levels are based on the market basket measure of poverty set by Statistics Canada. It's the most generous of the standards outside of the territories.
In the territories, they tend to be more generous. They're funded in a different way. The difficulties of making justice work in the territories are such that this just makes sense.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
To help everybody in this community, in dollars and cents, what would the threshold be now?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
For a single person, it's about $1,400 a month.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
I mentioned in my introductory comments that one of the problems is that the number has been pushed farther and farther down in most jurisdictions in Canada as a result of current levels of funding.
Back in the early eighties, it was common for legal aid to ask if you could afford a lawyer, and it actually had a test to look at a person's ability to pay. Since then, they have moved to a more arbitrary measure. If your income or assets are above that level, you won't get legal aid whether or not you can afford a lawyer.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Are there caps placed on the number of hours provided by lawyers for a criminal case? Are there caps for a civil case?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
Yes, caps on the number of hours are common. About half the plans in Canada rely on staff lawyer programs, so they are managed in a different way.
Those plans that use private lawyers—B.C., Alberta, and Ontario—tend to have a fixed number of hours. Sometimes they're staged. Sometimes they're subject to additional approvals. Sometimes, typically in the case of very large criminal cases, every hour is managed. Lawyers come and say what they need, and they receive approvals.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
For civil cases, it's typically a block of hours for particular levels of service.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Legal Services Society
Between criminal and civil...?