Evidence of meeting #87 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was victims.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Matthew Taylor  Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Carole Sheppard  Acting Director, Headquarters Counsel Group, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Trevor Bhupsingh  Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Commissioner Joanne Crampton  Assistant Commissioner, Federal Policing Criminal Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Lynn Lawless  Director, Intelligence, Targeting and Criminal Investigations Program Management, Canada Border Services Agency
Michael Holmes  Director, Serious and Organized Crime Strategies Division, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

4 p.m.

Michael Holmes Director, Serious and Organized Crime Strategies Division, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

I would turn to the RCMP for references to Interpol.

With regard to other international engagement, there is a fairly high level of international engagement in human trafficking, from the Government of Canada's point of view. We do attend United Nations transnational organized crime meetings on an annual basis. We have, for example, a trilateral working group to combat human trafficking with the United States and Mexico, which has met annually over the last five years, coming out of a commitment made at the North American leaders' summit. We have attended the United Nations General Assembly to portray Canada's position on human trafficking in general, so there is a very wide range.

We're engaged on different aspects of human trafficking, including, for example, the idea of having a national hotline. There are international examples we are looking at for Canada to possibly pursue. The United States, Mexico, the United Kingdom, and Australia either have those kinds of systems or are looking into them as well.

There is a very broad range. I would say it's a very broadly addressed issue internationally.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

Thank you, sir.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Mr. Rankin.

4 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for getting us started on this fascinating area.

I want to build on what Mr. Fraser asked Mr. Taylor about initially. I'm trying to get my head around the Criminal Code. Forgive me, but I tried, first of all, to understand where we are with Bill C-38, which you mentioned. To my understanding, the original bill, Bill C-452, was introduced by Maria Mourani to amend the code to provide for consecutive sentences for offences related to procurement and trafficking in persons, and it created what you talked about in another context, a presumption regarding the exploitation of one person by another, and added circumstances that were deemed to constitute exploitation.

Then Bill C-38, which amended that bill, passed with unanimous support almost a year ago, if I'm not mistaken, and it would implement every part of the original bill but the section that implemented the consecutive sentencing part, because the Liberals were reviewing, and still are reviewing, the issue of mandatory minimum sentences.

I just want to know if I have that right. Is that essentially correct? It's not in force yet—or is it in force?

4 p.m.

Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

You're correct that the amendments that were passed through Bill C-452 by Parliament are not yet in force. Bill C-38, which was introduced by the government, is in the House of Commons currently. It proposes to amend the coming into force clause of Bill C-452 for the reasons you have outlined with respect to the mandatory consecutive sentencing. It's no surprise that it's complicated to follow because it also relates to another piece of legislation that was passed by Parliament, Bill C-36, which I spoke about, and that was the bill that enacted mandatory minimum penalties for trafficking.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

It did contemplate partial proclamation, but nothing is yet in force. The exploitation, the reverse presumption, none of that is in force yet.

4:05 p.m.

Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

Correct. None of that is in force.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

That's what I needed to know.

I want to direct my questions on this to director Lawless, if I could. Today is an important day. We are beginning our study today, and it is also the day that our friends on the Subcommittee on International Human Rights have brought out a report, tabled in Parliament, entitled “A Global Fight: Supporting Efforts to Address Sex Trafficking in South Asia”. It speaks to the international engagement piece Mr. Holmes referred to. One of the things it talks about is the multi-pronged approach to the national and international combatting of human trafficking: prevention, protection, prosecution, and partnerships globally.

On the prevention piece, I'd like to ask what steps have or could be taken at the federal level to prevent human trafficking for sexual exploitation and forced work.

4:05 p.m.

Director, Intelligence, Targeting and Criminal Investigations Program Management, Canada Border Services Agency

Lynn Lawless

From the CBSA perspective, we take a broad, multi-pronged approach to addressing human trafficking, and it begins with our network of liaison officers abroad. We have 46 individuals abroad who are abroad specifically to work with foreign partners, including immigration, customs, border agencies, and police agencies, as well as the airline industry. They assist in identifying what we see to be trends and tendencies and share intelligence information. They share with the other partners indicators of trafficking in persons, whether it be for sex or forced labour. There is fairly active international engagement with partners to exchange that information to identify suspected trafficking organizations and to work with those parties to address that.

I've already described our role at the border, but our role actually extends in-country as well. In the context of doing other IRPA-related investigations, we often identify indicators of trafficking associated with things like undocumented labour, etc. We have a fairly broad approach, and it extends from overseas to in-country.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Commissioner Crampton, you gave us the statistic that 296 cases are before the courts at the moment. I have old data, so this may no longer speak to the problem, but the data suggests that in 2014, Stats Canada said that charges associated with trafficking in persons are often dropped. It also said that the “Majority of human trafficking court cases result in finding of stayed or withdrawn”.If those statistics continue to be applicable, over half the 296 cases will be stayed or withdrawn, if the 2014 data speaks to our current situation. That's a very disturbing number.

4:05 p.m.

A/Commr Joanne Crampton

It's certainly significant. I do not have those statistics, and I wouldn't be able to speak to what happens within the court process.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Ms. Sheppard.

4:05 p.m.

Acting Director, Headquarters Counsel Group, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions

Carole Sheppard

In preparation for my appearance, our case management system produced a report indicating that in the last 10 years there have been 12 cases in which section 118 trafficking charges were laid. Of those, two cases went to trial and resulted in acquittals, but in the one case of acquittal, the individual was convicted of a related offence.

With respect to the remainder, some are still before the court. I have looked at information related to several other cases, and although the charges under section 118 per se were either withdrawn or stayed, it was part of a resolution of the cases that saw the accused plead to other offences.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

I understand. I think Mr. Taylor made the point that when you have new sections, you're going to have initial challenges under the charter and the like. The courts are going to get used to it, and presumably, the successful conviction rate will go up. Nevertheless, notwithstanding what you said, I think it's still a very disturbing number. It may no longer be true, but I put that out there.

Do I have time for one more question, Mr. Chair?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Sure.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

This has to do with statistics. The subcommittee report I mentioned that came out today reports that NGOs and state-level actors are “working toward eliminating sex trafficking using different definitions and a divergent method of data collection.” In 2010, Stats Canada's centre for crime statistics also said that “very few organizations or government departments systematically collect data on human trafficking”. It is eight years later. Is that still the case? Is there still divergent data collection? Is this a problem or not? I am asking anyone who might know.

4:10 p.m.

Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

I do think there's still a divergence in the way in which organizations, countries, and institutions define human trafficking, and that starts from the definition of “trafficking in persons” in the UN protocol. It's a broad definition. It provides flexibility for different countries to define human trafficking in a way that's consistent with their legal systems. I think that's one of the overarching and ongoing challenges.

Then, of course, definitionally, at the local level organizations will collect information relevant to their mandate, relevant to their expertise, which may differ from, for example, the Criminal Code definition.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Right, but here in Ottawa the claim is that different departments collect it different ways and so forth. Should there be some coordination? Should there be a central repository so that we're talking apples and apples?

4:10 p.m.

Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

There is, certainly through the efforts of the human trafficking task force, an ongoing effort to try to ensure that we're consistent as a federal government in collecting information on human trafficking. But if you think about, for example, our colleagues at IRCC, they will collect information with respect to the number of individuals who receive temporary resident permits as potential victims of human trafficking. The Department of Justice and police agencies may collect information against the Criminal Code definition of human trafficking. So there are different data sources being collected for different purposes, but all are within the broad understanding of human trafficking as we understand it in the Criminal Code.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much, Mr. Rankin.

Mr. McKinnon and Mr. Casey will be sharing the next six minutes.

Mr. McKinnon.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Chair.

We have heard a lot of testimony from all of you on the number of agencies and interdepartmental organizations, task forces, both domestically and internationally. On top of that, we have a great number of different laws that can be brought to bear on different aspects of this problem. I think it was Mr. Bhupsingh who replied to Mr. Fraser that we seem to be making progress.

This what you have, but what do you need? What do you need to make your efforts more successful and more effective and to bring this crime even further to its knees?

4:10 p.m.

Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Trevor Bhupsingh

I think one of the first things, which we've talked a little bit about, is really getting ourselves organized around the definition of human trafficking. We've heard this from the discussion just in terms of the collection of data and information. We want the advice that we're providing as public servants to the government to be evidence-based. We've struggled a bit in terms of data collection. That's for a number of reasons, and some of the reasons that Mr. Taylor mentioned, but it's also in terms of human trafficking encompassing not only sexual exploitation but labour trafficking as well. Those are clearly two different things. In terms of the disaggregation of that data, I would say it's caused us some problems going forward.

Just to answer your question, sir, I would say that one of the things we do need is better coordination in data collection. I think the other piece for me would be largely around the research into best practices for human trafficking. As Mr. Holmes mentioned, there are some really good lessons learned around things like hotlines, etc., in different jurisdictions. I think these are things we should look at going forward. I think those provide a basis for us to put forward good advice.

I would just say that the evaluation of the last national action plan that covered a four-year period between 2012 and 2016 had a lot of good recommendations in it.

February 15th, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Would anyone else like to respond? No.

We have heard also that one of the difficulties here is that victims don't come forward. I believe that was talked about already with various members. I guess I'm interested in delving more into that. What can we do here? I mean, in cases like immigration, it's fairly obvious what we can do, but what are the other things we can do to encourage or make it easier for victims to come forward?

4:15 p.m.

Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

Again, from a justice perspective, ensuring that the criminal justice system is a place where victims have confidence is critically important. That's important for human trafficking and it's important for gender-based violence and sexual assault. I mean, it's important across the board. The training that is provided to police officers, who are often that first point of contact with victims, is critically important to help them understand the services they can refer victims to so that victims will have the confidence to come forward and report their crimes, knowing that they'll be properly investigated.

I think that's an easy thing to say. I think it's a challenge to implement. But certainly, focusing on the awareness-raising and training, ensuring that victims feel comfortable to come forward, would make a big difference.