Evidence of meeting #4 for Justice and Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jag Sahota Conservative Calgary Skyview, AB
I want to thank the witnesses for being here. I appreciate your time and presentation.
My question is in regard to the seminars and training sessions that have been created. Could you speak to the requirements? Is it attendance-based? Are there exams or any follow-ups?
Chief Judicial Officer, National Judicial Institute
For federally appointed judges, the two weeks of training are mandatory. There is no follow-up and there are no exams, but it is mandatory for all the judges to attend. There is a lot of skills training. You ask if there are exams and I say no, but there's a lot of work in tables with facilitators and senior judges who work with the judges, so they are constantly practising.
The “Judging in Your First Five Years” course—the intensive on sexual assault cases—is mandatory for all judges somewhere in their second to fifth year. All other training is at the decision of the judge and his or her chief justice. They are expected to take 10 days of education every year.
Conservative
Jag Sahota Conservative Calgary Skyview, AB
We know this bill speaks to mandatory training and education for lawyers seeking appointments. Do you have any support for sitting judges?
Chief Judicial Officer, National Judicial Institute
All our training is with the sitting judges.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
It's truly a privilege, as a member of the Ontario Bar, to be in the same room as such esteemed justices.
That being said, we've certainly seen in the United States—and we've also seen in the SNC-Lavalin affair—the inappropriateness of having too much influence or influence over the judiciary. However, on the counterpoint, we've also seen, as my colleague pointed out, some troubling comments by the judiciary. You've also talked about training going forward.
Can the Canadian public feel confident that justices across this country will not make the same types of comments, such as talking about the sexual history or even talking about how women could have possibly avoided sexual assault, saying such terrible things as they could have manoeuvred their pelvis differently?
Acting Executive Director and Senior General Counsel, Canadian Judicial Council
We can never give a guarantee, but one guarantee is that we are doing our darndest on a number of fronts. That was so upsetting to everybody. You can rest assured that we are conscious of this daily, and we'll do our very best.
Chief Judicial Officer, National Judicial Institute
I spoke about our session in our “Judging in Your First Five Years” program, where we had Christa Big Canoe talk about the missing and murdered indigenous women. If you've ever watched her submissions to the Supreme Court of Canada in the Barton case, where she talked about Cindy Gladue, she spoke with that same force in front of our judges, and that was education. That's the kind of education we provide to our judges, and we recognize the importance of that.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
If we do not make the changes you've recommended, do you feel that Parliament is interfering with the judiciary?
Acting Executive Director and Senior General Counsel, Canadian Judicial Council
Respectfully, we have concerns as it applies to judicial independence. Of course, in the Canadian way, we would like to have a compromise, and the compromise would be less mandatory language and still achieve the spirit of the legislation.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Justice Kent, it's really nice to see you here again.
When we looked at the bill the last time, we had a fairly robust conversation about making sure that sexual assault also takes into account sexual expression and gender expression, indigenous peoples, disability and ethnicity. We came to the conclusion the best wording to use in the legislation was “social context”. I'm wondering if you can assure us that when you're looking at social context in your sexual assault training, those individuals who are most vulnerable are being included. I was heartened to hear you have reached out to the groups that I know had asked you to during our previous iteration. We want to have some confidence that “social context” does include that particular view.
Chief Judicial Officer, National Judicial Institute
I don't want to say we've covered all those bases absolutely up to now. For example, a videocast that we've just launched includes Nneka MacGregor, Deepa Mattoo and Fran Odette, all of whom are heading groups that work with vulnerable witnesses, whether indigenous, racialized women, women with disabilities and so on.
I can't say it's all done as of today, but we are working on it. I can give you that confidence.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Okay.
I agree that our criminal justice system is the best in the world, but we have failed survivors of sexual assault. It's not just judges. It's police services and supports throughout the system. I would argue we've also failed a number of survivors of intimate partner violence or domestic assault.
Justice Kent, is there a need for more training around intimate partner violence?
Chief Judicial Officer, National Judicial Institute
I call it domestic or family violence because we know how it affects the whole family. We do some training. It's a little complicated; we won't get into it here, because of the provincial jurisdiction of some of the legislation involved. Could we do more? Absolutely. It's important. It intersects with sexual violence as well, and it's important training that we need to do.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
With that, I would really like to thank the witnesses for your very thoughtful remarks today. We really appreciate having your input. I'm going to suspend the meeting as we switch our witnesses. I'm sure the members will get a chance to say hello to you in person.
Acting Executive Director and Senior General Counsel, Canadian Judicial Council
Thank you, Madam Chair, and members.
