Justice Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[Michael Ellison]

It's fair to say, as a general statement, that the Criminal Intelligence Service Canada makes that link. Establishing a system and moving some of that betting activity will cut funding to organized crime to some extent. As we see with the CPMA now, integrated investigators at the PT level will assist in crime detection.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

Moving very quickly to Mr. Hansen—I only have about 45 seconds—do you think your customers who you're coming into a relationship with are also using these online services that are in the grey market or black market area right now? I know that they are in my area.

Are they doing that with your customer base as well right now?

[Zane Hansen]

The potential is definitely there. What we understand from other jurisdictions is that the sports betting customer will primarily be a new customer, beyond the reach of what casino customers are now.

Generally, if people have a legal option versus an illegal option, they will gravitate towards the legal. We see the advent of, say, provincial online organizations such as B.C., with their offering, and they now have majority market share. Your customers do gravitate toward legal offerings.

By legislating something, then you can regulate it. The industry can put their regulations around it, and it will vastly improve the integrity of the product being offered.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thanks very much.

At this time, I'll thank our witnesses and our committee today.

I thank you for your dedication and your participation.

We will suspend as we let in our next witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Mr. Clerk, I will call the meeting back to order.

Before we get started, I'll remind our members, and also let our witnesses know, that when you are speaking, please wait until you're recognized. Please unmute yourself before speaking, and then when you are not speaking, please be on mute.

Speak slowly and clearly for interpretation purposes, as we want to make sure that everybody understands. For the interpretation, select the language you would like to listen to. You can speak in any language that you so choose.

At this time, I'd like to welcome our witnesses. From the Canadian Gaming Association, we have Paul Burns who is the president and chief executive officer. From the Responsible Gambling Council, we have Shelley White, chief executive officer.

It's so wonderful to see you again, Shelley. We also have Tracy Parker, director, standards and accreditation.

From Unifor, we have Jerry Dias, national president; and Marc Hollin, who is the national representative.

You will each have five minutes to speak. I have a one minute card and a thirty second card, which I will be using as I count your time.

We'll start with the Canadian Gaming Association.

Mr. Burns, you have five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Paul Burns, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Gaming Association]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

I want to thank the members of Parliament for your leadership over the past year. During these very difficult times, your efforts to support individuals and businesses are welcome and are to be commended.

The Canadian Gaming Association is a national trade association representing gaming facility operators, manufacturers of gaming technology and equipment, and a wide array of suppliers of goods and services to Canada's gaming industry.

With over $17 billion in annual revenue, Canada's gaming industry is present in every region of the country. Just over 100 MPs have major gaming facilities in their communities. Our industry supports over 180,000 jobs across Canada, contributing almost $19 billion in value-added GDP. We purchase over $14.5 billion annually in goods and services, and much of that comes from the communities in which we operate.

Our industry, like so many others, has been severely impacted by the pandemic. Many of our facilities have not reopened since last March, or, when permitted to open, have done so with very limited capacity. Many of the 90,000 frontline employees have not been able to come to work this past year, creating significant and devastating impacts for families and communities.

This is one of the reasons our industry continues to pursue the proposed amendment to the Criminal Code that you are studying. As we look towards recovery, having the ability to offer single-event sports wagering when we are able to reopen safely will be of tremendous benefit to Canadian gaming operators and their employees.

While we have been closed—respecting the directives from our local public health authorities—offshore online sports books and bookmaking operations run by organized crime have continued to operate. Annually, Canadians place over $4 billion in wagers with offshore online sports books and approximately $10 billion through illegal bookmaking operations run by organized crime. It's time to level the playing field. It's time to give Canadian gaming operators the opportunity to offer the same product in a legal, licensed and highly regulated environment, and see the benefits flow back to our communities and to the public good.

Our industry, alongside provincial government partners, has been requesting this amendment for over a decade. As you will learn through these hearings, the amendment is supported by business and labour organizations, law enforcement professionals, professional amateur sports organizations, municipalities and responsible gaming organizations. It's time to get it done.

In 1985, the federal and provincial governments agreed that the provinces would have an exclusive right to operate and regulate gaming within their jurisdictions. Over the past 30-plus years, provincial governments have worked to create a safe, highly regulated gaming environment. We've developed and implemented world-class responsible gaming programs that allow Canadian operators to deliver high-quality gaming experiences in safe and secure environments.

It is the provinces, through their provincial gaming regulators, who will work to ensure sports wagering is delivered with the proper level of controls and oversight. This will include things like age and identity verification to ensure minors cannot participate; information and data-sharing agreements between sports organizations, sports book operators, gaming regulators and law enforcement to protect the integrity of matches and prevent match fix; prohibition on things like players, coaches and officials from wagering on sports; standards for advertising and marketing; and obviously, access to responsible gaming tools, and self-exclusion operators for players.

It is only through the regulation of this activity that we can bring it out of the shadows, where it currently operates, and into the light, where we can ensure that proper player protections are available and enforced. This is the only way that Canadian technology companies, like Toronto-based sports book operator theScore, Vancouver-based technology gaming developer FansUnite or Halifax-based sport statistics data provider Covers Media can grow their businesses. These are companies based in Canada that provide goods and services to a global customer base. They are innovators, creating high-value jobs.

If Canada continues to criminalize single-event wagering, the appetite to continue to drive innovation for companies like these may not be there. Provinces need to be allowed to give consumers more and better choice of where they're betting, and obviously, I'd like to see home-grown companies like the ones I just mentioned be able to thrive in their home markets.

In closing, the sentiment by all stakeholders is that this legislation is long overdue. Only by regulating single-sports betting can we be sure that players are protected, that funds are returned to the provinces in which they're generated and that Canadian businesses have an opportunity to grow and renew their revenue streams.

Thank you for having me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Burns.

I appreciate you staying within those five minutes.

We'll now go the Responsible Gaming Council with Shelley White, who's the chief executive officer, and Tracy Parker.

Please, go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Shelley White, Chief Executive Officer, Responsible Gambling Council]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the Standing Committee of Justice and Human Rights. Thank you for inviting the Responsible Gambling Council to share our perspective on Bill C-218.

RGC is a respected Canadian not-for-profit organization whose mission is to prevent problem gambling and reduce its impact. Canada is considered a leader in responsible gambling. We're proud to be part of this discussion on the legalization of sports betting.

Our position on gambling is neutral. Gambling is a legal activity in Canada, and as such, we exist to ensure safeguards are in place to minimize the risks associated with gambling.

For over 35 years, RGC has worked closely with regulators and operators to provide strategic guidance, research and accreditation. It works with the public to deliver education and information, so they can make informed decisions about gambling.

We are gratified by our work and how it influences a safer gambling industry. For instance, we prepared the responsible gambling Canada review for Paul Burns and the Canadian Gaming Association, which Mr. Waugh referred to on Tuesday.

For over the last few years, sports betting has grown in popularity, and with it, the body of evidence to suggest who's gambling, the issues associated with sports betting and how to support a safer sports betting industry.

According to the 2018 Canadian Community Health Survey, sports betting prevalence in Canada is 7.9%, with Alberta and Manitoba showing the highest proportion of participation.

A survey that RGC conducted in August 2020 with Ontarians asked about their participation in live, online sports betting with a bookmaker. Sixty-two per cent of males responded that they had participated. Thirty-four per cent of respondents had recently lost employment or reduced hours of employment. Thirteen per cent screened with severe anxiety. Forty-seven per cent positively screened for problem gambling. Over one in 10 intend to gamble online post-COVID-19, and 5% intend to increase their online gambling when more options are available in Ontario.

While this study was about gambling during COVID-19, we know that the impacts from the pandemic will be long-lasting. This study clearly underscores the importance of prevention safeguards as a priority as governments seek to provide broader exposure to gambling.

While gambling has existed in Canada for many years, it's important to take note of how sports betting differs from other types of gambling. Sports betting ties gambling to a favourite pastime enjoyed by millions of Canadians. This association normalizes the gambling activity. Added to this, sports betting has the added complexity of tying emotion into the gambling experience. The emotion associated with the heat-of-the-moment game play can make informed decision-making about money and time spent playing more difficult.

It is with these people in mind that we speak to you today. RGC believes that it's in the best interest of Canadians and Canadian society as a whole that Bill C-218 be passed. It is with this evidence and Canadians' best interests in mind, that RGC recommends the following to the committee.

First is that the legislation of single-event sports betting include a robust regulatory framework that requires provincial regulators and operators to prioritize and integrate consumer protection within their strategy, including adherence and accountability to the highest standard of responsible gambling.

Second is that the federal government continue to champion the prevention of addictions and preservation of individuals' mental health and well-being, in accordance with Canada's Mental Health Commission strategy . This can be achieved by prioritizing consumer safety and supporting the provincial authorities to develop comprehensive responsible gambling strategies as well as build their capacity to support individuals and their communities when they introduce legalized sports betting.

The good news is that we don't need to recreate the wheel. Most of the standards already exist and are in place in land-based gambling. We also have the benefit of lessons learned from other jurisdictions.

In closing, Madam Chair and members of the standing committee, it is RGC's neutral and independent stance that we recommend Bill C-218 be passed. This is a unique opportunity to bring together stakeholders from health, mental health, education, financial services and the policing sectors with the gambling industry to create a made-in-Canada responsible gambling culture comprised of evidence-informed regulations and leading practices. We have the opportunities to learn from other jurisdictions who've come before us and applied the highest level of safeguards.

This thoughtful and intentional approach will demonstrate Canada's commitment to prosperity as well as the health and well-being of Canadians and society. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thanks very much, Ms. White. I appreciate that.

We'll now go to Unifor with Jerry Dias and Marc Hollin for five minutes.

Go ahead.

[Jerry Dias, National President, Unifor]

Good afternoon, Chair, and members of the standing committee. It is a pleasure to have been invited to speak to you here today. My name is Jerry Dias, and I am the national president of Unifor, which is Canada's largest private sector union.

Unifor represents 315,000 members across nearly all major sectors of the economy, from coast to coast, including approximately 11,000 gaming workers across the country. We have members working at the Parq Casino in Vancouver, at Manitoba lotteries, and at Caesars Windsor and Casino Rama, just to name a few.

It is on their behalf that I am speaking today when I share Unifor's support for Bill C-218, the safe and regulated sports betting act. We believe the federal government should act now to permit single-game sports betting so this gaming activity can be regulated and so our federal and provincial laws and regulations support safe and responsible gaming policy.

Unifor has been advocating for this legislation on single-game sports betting for several years, because we know first-hand that responsible gaming must take place in a professional, properly regulated and fairly taxed environment. Our members and elected leaders—leaders like Dave Cassidy, president of Local 444 in Windsor, Ontario—have been strong and vocal advocates for this legislative change. Local 444 represents 2,300 members working at Caesars Windsor.

In addition, Unifor's hospitality and gaming council, a leadership group elected by and representing 22,000 workers in the hospitality and gaming sector, has endorsed the legislation and regulation of single-game sports betting. Our workers and leaders in the sector know that regulated gaming supports our communities through good unionized jobs, provides business for the broader tourism and hospitality sector, and drives much-needed revenue streams for local, provincial and federal governments.

For many years, some of the biggest opponents to single-game sports betting were the professional sports leagues themselves. However, over time, technology has changed, regulation and enforcement have changed, and public sentiment has changed. Reflecting this shifting, evolving understanding of responsible gaming, many professional sports leagues have revised their position. In June 2020, the NBA, the National Hockey League, Major League Baseball, Major League Soccer and the CFL issued a joint statement supporting the legalization of single-game sports betting in Canada. These leagues recognize the same fundamental truth our members and local leaders do, and that is this: single-game sports betting already takes place in Canada every day, but right now it is illegal, illicit, unregulated and unmonitored. By now, you've probably heard—which you have—that sports betting in Canada is a $14-billion-a-year business, and that only about $500 million of that is spent on legal provincial sports betting. The other $13.5 billion is spent through offshore organizations and illegal bookmaking operations.

In other words, in reality, Bill C-218 isn't about bringing single-game sports betting to Canada. It's about creating a legal framework that will establish a legal and regulated sports betting market in Canada, which would in turn increase consumer protections, help support responsible gaming measures, and protect the integrity of the sports themselves.

It goes without saying that revenues generated in illicit, illegal, underground black market gaming operations do nothing to contribute to good jobs for workers in Canada. This money is siphoned off into the pockets of offshore operators and organized crime. On the other hand, by creating a legal and regulated market for single-game sports betting in Canada, we could help protect thousands of good, unionized jobs in gaming locations across the country and potentially create many more. As you witnessed just last week, Bill C-218received overwhelming support at second reading, with 303 members voting in favour. For our members working in the gaming sector, their families, and their communities, this show of support is great news.

I'd like to close by reiterating Unifor's support for Bill C-218. It's time to bring legal and regulated single-game sports betting to Canada.

Thanks very much and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dias.

We will now go into our rounds of questions for the first round of six minutes each. We'll start with Mr. Lewis.

Please go ahead, sir.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks to each and every witness for presenting today some really fantastic testimony, as always.

My first question will be for Mr. Burns.

You spoke about 80 to 90,000 jobs within the gaming industry. As you're very well aware, Michigan and New York already have single sports betting, and Canada is losing out daily, economically and financially.

With regard to the economic side, you had mentioned about two businesses making an app of some type. Do you have any idea what economic impact this will have for Canada?

[Paul Burns]

There have been a great number of estimates about the size to which this market will grow. Deloitte recently released a report that said that within five years the sports gaming markets could see $28 billion in gross wagering annually.

The impact, as previous witnesses Mr. Hansen from SIGA and Mr. Dias spoke about, on jobs and communities of being able to bring people into gaming facilities would be enhanced food and beverage offerings, expanded entertainment choices and events around that. This is where the industry sees the potential for job creation and sees those impacts, because right now, single-event sports betting is not really creating any economic benefit for Canada. It's not paying salaries. It's not going to government revenues as a lot of the gaming revenue does.

So it's tremendous being able to turn this inward. I spoke to about three businesses, for example, and this is the other side. There are companies that provide goods and services and technology in the gaming and sports betting sector, the gaming sector, that can thrive with this. The reach is wide and diverse, and this is an opportunity to participate legally, to give people the legal options in Canada. It's extremely important to see some of these benefits occur.

As the market grows, there will be significant benefits back to communities through jobs and employment in companies servicing the sports betting sector, beyond marketing partnerships, broadcasters.... There's lots of opportunity for revenue and that economic impact to be felt right across the country.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Burns.

Mr. Dias, building off what you said, sir, about the 2,300 workers at Caesars Windsor, what will happen to Unifor gaming sector workers if this bill doesn't pass?

[Jerry Dias]

Well, first of all, it has to pass, because otherwise all that would do would be to put us at a greater competitive disadvantage with the U.S.-based casinos. Take a look at Fallsview, for example. Take a look at Caesars Windsor. We are estimating that just in those two casinos alone, single-event sports betting will require an additional 250 jobs. We're expecting that at Caesars Windsor it will generate anywhere between $18 million and $24 million in profits and, for Fallsview, anywhere between $9 million and $12 million.

So this is significant, but I think the key point—and I think we all realize this—is that Canadians are gambling. It's $14 billion a year we're spending, and if we're not going to spend it in Canada, we're going to spend it abroad. It isn't any more complicated than that.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dias, and I will go right back to you, through our chair, of course.

When you speak about the potential 250 new jobs for Caesars Windsor, are these low-wage service jobs? Can you explain what this would really bring to the table, what it would bring for Essex-Windsor?

[Jerry Dias]

Well, I'd bargained much better agreements than that.

The reality is that our members in the gaming sector are very well paid. These aren't your typical service jobs. These are very densely unionized jobs, and the pay is significant. These are well-paid, middle-class, working-class jobs. So it will definitely have a major impact on the economy in Windsor.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That's great. Thank you.

Mr. Dias, wouldn't passing Bill C-218 represent an expansion of gaming in this country? So isn't that in essence really what we're voting for?

[Jerry Dias]

We're legalizing what's already done. If you don't pass the legislation, people will continue to go offshore, which is going to have a negative impact on Canadian jobs, so why wouldn't the government want to attract a net benefit from this? Why wouldn't we want to control it in a safe, regulated environment?

This is about creating good jobs for the communities. It's about a decent revenue stream for municipal, provincial and federal governments, and as I said, it could be done in a safe environment. I think it's a winner all the way around for Canadians.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I see that I have only 30 seconds. I just want to thank all of the witnesses.

I really enjoyed, Mr. Dias, when you mentioned how it's going to kind of explode tourism, in a good way, in our area as well if we can get this passed. So thank you very much.

[Jerry Dias]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lewis.

We'll now go to Mr. Sarai for six minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

It's rare to have a bill where you have unions, the industry and those who are protecting vulnerable Canadians all agreeing that this legislation should pass. That's a good sign that it's is about time and that it should happen.

My first question is also for Mr. Dias. I have many family members who are Unifor members, and a lot of constituents, so I'm very proud of the work you do in making sure that their employment and contracts are well done and that they have good middle-class family jobs.

I'd like to know—you've kind of answered in terms of Windsor—what your estimate is for additional jobs in this sector in terms of across Canada, particularly in British Columbia.

[Jerry Dias]

Thank you very much for your comments.

We are estimating that, as a minimum, it'll create at least 2,000 jobs across the country. B.C. has several casinos, in which we have organized. I can't give an exact number, but I would expect that you're probably looking at a good 500-plus jobs in B.C. as a result of this change.