Justice Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. White from the Responsible Gambling Council.

The only thing conservative about me is how I gamble. I would like to know how you're going to prevent addictions. What tools that might be more specific towards single-sport betting might you need to make sure that people don't get in a habit of addiction or losing their livelihoods over this?

[Shelley White]

Like there are for other forms of gambling, we would highly recommend that there are responsible gambling standards built into regulation to provide guidance to the operators in terms of how to incorporate a responsible gambling culture and strategy in their operations.

Second, we would recommend that each regulator, provincial authority, put in place a responsible Internet gambling fund, incorporating this into the revenue model so that a small portion—approximately 2%—is dedicated to responsible gambling protocols, such as prevention strategies, treatment and secondary treatment, as well as ongoing research measurement and evaluation—ultimately, taking a public health approach to this in which all the stakeholders are engaged. This is a complex issue. We need to have health care, mental health services, financial services, education, policing, responsible gambling...and industry at the table together, developing a strategy that's going to be effective for players, as well as for the community and for the regulators and operators.

With regard to health promotion, I have to say that prevention is paramount. This is the most effective and least costly measure to implement, providing young people, young adults, males, individuals from ethnocultural communities, and seniors with information about how they can gamble safely so that it is an enjoyable experience for them, an entertaining experience, and doesn't create any harms for them. Ultimately, prevention is the highest priority in terms of this.

Those would be at a very high level of what we'd recommend in terms of protecting consumers.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

I think preventing young people is probably key, especially young males who might get in the habit of betting on sports at an early age. However, if they know it's a recreational thing as opposed to a money-making scheme, that might be a better thing.

I'm sorry to cut you off. I'm going to ask Mr. Burns a question.

Money laundering in B.C. has been a big issue, especially in casinos. It's been a concern for British Columbians. I want to know whether single-sport betting would be vulnerable to the same. Would that be a concern for British Columbian gamers?

[Paul Burns]

It's more of a concern now because it's not legalized and organized crime is using it quite regularly as a money-laundering tool. That's the reason for bringing it into a regulated environment.

A lot of the recent discussions around the suggestion of money laundering in casinos in British Columbia have to do with...there's a lot of detection in.... Casinos file reports to FINTRAC, we have monitored players and we have banned players in British Columbia from using it.

We saw the influx of cash that came over a period about five years ago. The industry responded, it changed its policies and it learned as it saw this influx of cash. In fact, it probably wasn't so much money laundering occurring but bad people using the proceeds of crime to come and play in casinos. In some respects, that is what's really come out. The need to take away sources of funds from organized crime is very important in this.

The Criminal Intelligence Service Canada report from 2019 stated just that, that organized crime is active in the space, they use online sites and they use in-person bookmaking operations today to launder money. Taking this channel away from them is very important, and so is bringing it in where there is oversight. We are working with FINTRAC, law enforcement and gaming regulators to ensure there's a safe marketplace.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

We'll now go to Monsieur Fortin.

You have the floor for six minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Burns.

Right now, Canadian gamblers must go on websites or abroad, such as to a number of American states, which allow single-event sports betting. I am still obviously talking about single events.

If Bill C-218 is passed, people will be able to bet on single sporting events in Canada.

Beyond the impact and the inflow of Canadian money related to single-event sports betting, what impact could this have in terms of foreign money that would ultimately be invested in casinos or other entities, here, in Canada?

[Paul Burns]

We have a very strong regulatory environment in Canada. For someone to participate in the gaming industry, they need to be licensed. They need to have ownership. To have certain key jobs in casinos, you're required to go through a very thorough background investigation. Not just anyone can participate in the gaming industry. It's a very privileged industry, so in terms of bad players coming in—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

My apologies, Mr. Burns, but I think I misspoke.

We don't have much time.

My question was meant to find out whether, according to you, the foreign money coming in will have an impact in Canada. I am talking about American or French bettors, among others, who would be placing bets in Quebec or in Canada if Bill C-218 was passed.

[Paul Burns]

No I don't. I think we're one of the last countries in the world to consider actually moving in this direction.

Regulated sports betting has been operating for dozens of decades in Europe. It's now in the United States and South America. We are one of the last countries to move to regulate sports betting in the fashion we're proposing here.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

If I have understood correctly, the additional revenue would come from Canadian gamblers.

[Paul Burns]

Yes, it would. It would come from repatriating some of that money from illegal sources. Sports wagering is growing in popularity because of technology. It has been on an upswing for a number of years, so yes, it would bring that money back into legal channels.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Okay.

My second question is about match fixing.

Many experts worry that legalizing single-event sports betting will lead to more fixing and fraud. They are concerned about attempts to change the result of single sporting events, which is easier than changing the result of several events.

What do you think must be done to better combat the fixing of single-event sports betting?

[Paul Burns]

Match fixing does occur.

Through regulated environments, you've been able to put eyes on sports. Every major professional league has monitoring activities where they use services in monitoring players. They prohibit players, coaches and officials from wagering.

There are organizations such as the International Centre for Sport Security that work on athlete education, working with sports books and law enforcement, monitoring betting lines and looking for unusual patterns. All of this occurs within a legally regulated framework.

Being able to put eyes on sport today is very important. That's why major sports organizations such as the International Olympic Committee, FIFA and others have all said that we need regulated sports environments so we can watch for match fixing. We have greater eyes, and greater player education is really the key on this, educating athletes so they understand how to deal with people who may approach them to fix a match. These are all important pieces to this.

The Centre for Ethics in Sport in Canada is a body that looks after doping requirements. They see educating players, athletes, on sports wagering as a very important part of the mandate that they'd like to take on.

There is lots of activity going on with this. That's why I say that Canada is very late to the party in terms of the global movement to look at regulating sports wagering.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Do you think our current regulations are sufficient to properly control the issue of sporting event fixing?

[Paul Burns]

Yes, and provincial gaming regulators are looking at this very seriously and enhancing those regulations, as I mentioned in my remarks. They'll look at requiring data-sharing information. They will look at prohibiting athletes, coaches and officials from betting on sports, but they will also work with other bodies to make sure there's a robust framework to educate players and to educate law enforcement so they know what to look for.

As we go through this, I think we're going to see that the attention brought to this brings it out of the shadows, as I call it, and into the light so we can protect people. Greater consumer and athlete protection is extremely important. No one wants to see a match fixed. It doesn't work for the sports book operators. It doesn't work for sports, and it's something that we all want to fight hard to stamp out.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Do you think certain sporting events are currently being fixed, even if we are not talking about single-event betting?

[Paul Burns]

In this country, there's only been one attempt at match fixing that occurred, and that was through the previous Canadian soccer league, which is a very amateur-level league that, somehow, sports books in Europe thought was equivalent to the English premier league, which it wasn't. They were trying to fix matches in Canada, but none of the bets were being placed here. They were being placed in Europe, Asia and other places.

It is a global problem. Interpol has a whole unit dedicated to chasing match fixers around the world. There is lots of activity. It can occur, but those discussions.... Unless you're watching, no one knows what's going on. That's why we need people to watch.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you.

Monsieur Fortin, just so you know, you had 30 seconds extra there to finish your time.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you so much, Madame Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

We will now go to Mr. Masse for six minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

To Ms. White, you're right. Prevention is a huge issue.

When we started this 10 years ago, if you did a conservative estimate of $12 billion in offshore, black market, and illegal, you're up to $120 billion. If this doesn't pass this time, do you think there's a responsibility for the federal government to help provide more resources for addiction gaming?

When I started this 10 years ago, it was with a BlackBerry. Now we have our phones and everything else. We can now do this type of activity. It has really escalated, and we know it's happening. If we don't pass this in Parliament right now and provide tools or resources through a regulated market, do you think there's a responsibility for the government to act to make up the shortfall, because people are doing this activity?

[Shelley White]

As the gambling industry grows and diversifies, certainly there are more opportunities for people to gamble. I think the federal government leveraging its role with the Mental Health Commission of Canada and utilizing that to bring together the provinces to look at ways that additional resources and infrastructure could be created in each province to provide more information and better support would be extremely beneficial.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you for that.

Just quickly, Mr. Dias, with regard to your operations—I'm very familiar with the one in Windsor here, obviously, with David Cassidy, Dana Dunphy and others—can you describe the work ethic that's going on there? People may not be familiar with the fact that we have billions of dollars of infrastructure here and we now have to compete unfairly with the United States with the products and services they have. Despite that, can you speak to the level of professionalism we have here?

Can you also speak to the workforce and what they contribute back to the community? It's not just their wages and their donations to the United Way and those charitable things; it's also the supply system going to the service industry for operations like that and the significance of them.

[Jerry Dias]

There's no question that we are at a significant disadvantage to gaming workers in the United States—and, I will argue, because of this. If you look historically, especially with the Canadian dollar right now, hovering in the high 70¢ to 80¢.... Of course, we're living in a pandemic, but pre-pandemic it was not unusual on weekends to have the Windsor casino full of American workers. Now the U.S. casinos have all moved to legalize single-sports betting. That's having a huge impact.

Even though we are in some circumstances at a disadvantage, you'll see that our members at Windsor casino continue to win all of the awards within the Caesars chain. We have an incredibly highly skilled workforce. I think one of the things I'm most proud of in the community of Windsor is what our members contribute to the United Way campaign, to women's shelters, food banks and the Herbie Fund. Our members who work at Windsor casino are right at the forefront of all of that, as is our Local 444. We are an integral part of the community. Our wages play a major role in creating a vibrant community in Windsor and Essex county.