Justice Committee on Oct. 29th, 2020

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is along the same lines.

In response to questions from the opposition—mine in particular—the Prime Minister told the House, a few times, that he used the so-called Liberalist database, the infamous list of Liberal Party members and donors, but only after the candidates had made it through the other steps in the selection process. As far as he is concerned, it's an acceptable practice.

Obviously, I won't try today to determine whether it was acceptable to do things that way or not. What I'm interested in is how much that part of the process costs.

Can you tell me what the cost of conducting Liberalist checks on candidates is?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I can't answer that since it's not part of the process my department conducts. Neither the judicial advisory committees nor my team or I has access to the list. The process we follow is free from partisanship and political interests. The recommendations of the JACs are based on the candidate applications before them. Their job does not involve checking the list; nor does mine. I submit my recommendations to the Prime Minister's Office. I have said this publicly: so far, none of my recommendations has ever been blocked and I have never received any suggestions for appointees from the Prime Minister or his office.

I can't answer your question about cost, because what you are referring to is not part of our process.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Can you tell me whether any studies or projects are under way to identify potential improvements to the selection process in connection with the Canadian Judicial Council?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

We introduced the system in 2016, and I sincerely believe it's working well right now. Every once in a while, delays arise related to the composition of the JACs, as I mentioned to Mr. Moore, but overall, the system is fairly effective and transparent. Lawyers across the country are now much more comfortable with the criteria and effort required, given the amount of work involved in putting together an application.

As far as the calibre and diversity of appointees is concerned, we have a terrific record. Since 2016, nearly 55% of appointees have been women. Under the Conservative government, less than a third of appointed judges were women.

Diversity-wise, we are working to improve the makeup of the judiciary around the country, so it looks more like Canada.

I would say the system is doing a very good job in terms of producing high-calibre appointees that reflect Canada's diversity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I have other questions, but I realize they will have to wait until the next round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Sorry, but we're a little bit over time.

Thank you very much, Monsieur Fortin.

Mr. Garrison, the floor is yours for six minutes, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Certainly I want to thank you, Minister, for being here with us today. I also want to thank you for the spirit of collaboration and co-operation that you've always exhibited toward me when it comes to justice issues and the justice file.

I was very pleased to hear you mention domestic violence, or intimate partner violence, in your opening statement. I want to focus a little bit on this question.

When I first did a phone round of the many police forces and detachments in my riding in March because of COVID, every one of them raised the problem of a spike in family violence, domestic violence or intimate partner violence at the outset of COVID. I believe this is a continuing trend, and one that we will see exacerbated as many families struggle with loss of income and other challenges posed by COVID.

One thing the police said to me was that they often lack tools to deal with this question of violence before it becomes overt physical violence. I introduced a private member’s bill, Bill C-247, that tries to deal with the phenomenon of coercive and controlling behaviour, which quite often is a precursor to that violence. This would provide police with another tool that they could use to intervene earlier in intimate partner violence.

Minister, is the government interested in pursuing such an initiative, one that would help police to have additional tools to deal with intimate partner violence?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

First of all, I thank you, Randall, honourable member, for your question. The feeling of respect is mutual. I really appreciate your opening comments and I thank you for them. I share the same feelings.

We're open. This would be in collaboration with both Minister Monsef and Minister Blair. That would be my initial reaction. Certainly, anything that we can do to help reduce intimate partner violence is something we would look at very seriously.

We have invested, in particular through Minister Monsef and WAGE—I know that's an unfortunate acronym—during the COVID period in trying to reduce intimate partner violence. It has been identified by a number of experts as having been exacerbated by the pandemic, and by the confinement in particular. We're sensitive to that.

I will undertake to look at that suggestion and that private member’s bill very carefully.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

In your opening statement, you also mentioned the victims fund. One of the other phenomena we've seen during COVID is that a lot of the services to victims are provided by non-profits, by charities. Of course, because families are facing increasing financial stress, this results in fewer donations to charities, and so there are fewer resources in the communities to help provide services to victims.

I know that some of these funds the federal government has aren't in your purview, but the victims fund is. In the main estimates, it shows a 41% cut to the victims fund, from $25 million down to $15 million. This is a fund that has programs within it that provide grants to support families of missing and murdered indigenous women. It provides support to families appearing at parole hearings.

While I don't doubt your commitment to victims, the budget shows a very large cut in that fund. There may be a very good reason for this, but could you explain why this is happening and how you'll make up for that cut?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you for that question. I'll give the high-level answers. If there is any more detail, I may ask my officials to back me up.

There are two main reasons for the over $10-million drop in that fund. The first is the sunsetting of the FILUs, the Family Information Liaison Units that were associated with MMIWG. I have since managed to secure another three years of funding for the FILUs. That will come up, so $7.2 million will come back in, but it will come up in supplementaries later on down the road. That's part of the decrease.

The other is the sunsetting of a $3.8-million fund for temporary measures to support and address prostitution. That fund has sunset, but we have invested a greater amount of money, again, through Hon. Maryam Monsef and WAGE, in an anti-trafficking strategy. I think the figure is almost $30 million for that, but I can confirm that for you. We feel that the money is better being deployed elsewhere.

That certainly is the high-level answer. If any of my officials want to add any detail, I will let them, but I will leave it up to you, Randall, to decide.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thanks very much. I think that gives us a good idea of what's happening.

Very quickly then, since you mentioned sex work, there was supposed to be a review of the legislation that recriminalized sex work after the Bedford decision. That was supposed to start last December. One of the things we've seen happening here is legislative reviews with nobody seeming to be in charge of making sure they actually happen. I wonder if the minister could tell us today when we can expect some initiative on the review of sex work. I believe, and certainly many other advocates for the sex work industry believe, that the current legislation is very damaging and dangerous for those engaged in sex work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thanks, Mr. Garrison. I think the Minister will have to dwell on that a little bit as we come to the second round of questions.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Can I answer that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Mr. Garrison will be asking you the same question in the next round.

Moving on to the next round, which is five minutes each, we'll start with Mr. Cooper. You have five minutes, sir.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Good morning, honourable minister. It's good to see you back at the Justice committee.

I want to pick up where Mr. Garrison left off with respect to the main estimates and the victims fund.

In your reply to Mr. Garrison, you noted that a part of that has to do with the sunsetting of funding under the measures to address prostitution initiative, or MAPI. Minister, you noted that there is funding under the national strategy, but when the MAPI funding was sunsetted, organizations on the front lines to help women and girls who are at risk of sexual exploitation and human trafficking were literally left in the dark and forced to scramble.

Megan Walker, who is the executive director of the London Abused Women's Centre, said, “We never received anything from the government officially—no thank you for serving women on behalf of MAPI, no official notice MAPI was ending, no notice that we weren't funded through Victims of Crime, just no correspondence.”

How do you justify that?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you, Michael, if I may, for your question.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Yes.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

As always, it's good to see you and to respond to your concerns.

As I mentioned in my previous answer to Randall Garrison, that program was sunsetting. I thank the MAPI centre in London, Ontario. I was well aware, as you can assume, that the funding would have an impact on them. I thank them for the work that they have done. As I said, the figure is actually $19 million in a program to reduce human trafficking and to support those most impacted by human trafficking. That's through WAGE, Women and Gender Equality Canada, under Minister Monsef's purview. My understanding is that she has established a relationship with MAPI in London, Ontario, and my understanding is that they got COVID emergency funding through Minister Monsef. I guess that on the one hand, the program came to an end, while on the other hand, other opportunities opened up to help MAPI in London.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

You did make reference to emergency funding in the summer. It's true that there was emergency funding provided, but that wasn't a replacement for the anti-human trafficking funds.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

That's fair.

As I said, we determined that the question could be better tackled, better addressed, through a different kind of programming, and that's where we have gone through Minister Monsef and the anti-human trafficking strategy.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Now, Minister, I want to talk a little about juror supports.

Jurors play an integral role in the administration of justice. According to a survey that has been done, Canadians would be very hesitant to serve on a jury at this time, particularly due to COVID. What steps are you taking to work with provinces and territories to achieve better supports for jurors and to address some of the issues that specifically arise from COVID?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

You know, Michael, that I share your concern. We have agreed on this before, and I will agree with you again publicly. I met with Mark Farrant in my first mandate under the last government. We are willing to continue working; I am willing to continue working with provinces and territories. That said, my priority right now with the pandemic is the court system generally. It is important; it is a priority to me. I've said that before and I've shared that with you.

I can assure you that we will get to it, and Mr. Farrant is in contact with various people across government with your former colleague on this committee, Anthony Housefather. It will happen; I'm just not going to make a promise on dates that I can't keep at this stage. However, you have my sincere assurances that I will do my best.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lametti.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Minister.