Evidence of meeting #3 for Justice and Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vote.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Thank you so much, Minister Lametti.
Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.
I now go to Mr. Fortin for two and a half minutes.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Since I don't have much time, I am just going to revisit some of your answers to my previous questions, if you don't mind, Minister. I want to be sure I understood you correctly.
I asked you about the effectiveness of the judicial appointment process, and from what I understood, the new system, in place since 2016, is working well. No reviews are under way to change or improve the system in any way.
Another issue I asked you about was language training for judges to ensure they are bilingual. Correct me if I'm wrong, but such training is available only to Supreme Court justices, not to other court judges.
What kind of training is available to judges to ensure they are bilingual? You told me earlier that 32% of federally appointed judges are able to hear cases in French and that 12% understand written materials in French. You did say, though, that there was no test to evaluate those skills.
If you don't do any testing to evaluate judges' ability to communicate in French with lawyers and parties to the case, how did you come up with those numbers?
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
I'm going to ask my deputy minister to provide more details in a moment.
The commissioner for federal judicial affairs, Marc Giroux, does administer a test, and it's not solely for Supreme Court justices.
I was referring to the recent applications and appointments. That information was provided to us in the applications. I am confirming that there is a test to assess the bilingual ability of judges.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
You're saying you administer tests to evaluate the bilingual ability of judges on superior courts, appeal courts and the Supreme Court. Is that correct?
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
Yes, but I am not sure whether it's mandatory. Ms. Drouin can provide more details.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
12:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Thank you, Minister.
It's a pleasure to see you again, Mr. Fortin.
The commissioner for federal judicial affairs works with the people in charge of judges' training under the French language training program for judges. It's a proven program designed to train judges who want to become functional in their second official language. The training is delivered over a number of weeks, if not months.
That answers the question. A training program exists—
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I know.
I would just like to apologize for rushing the witnesses, but we have such a limited amount of time.
Thank you, Madam Chair. You're doing a good job.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
My apologies. Thank you.
Mr. Garrison, you're up for two and a half minutes.
Thank you so much for sticking to the time.
Please go ahead.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to start by thanking the minister for his frank acknowledgement that there is systemic racism in the Canadian justice system and for acknowledging the overrepresentation of indigenous people and racialized Canadians in it.
While the statements of the government are very positive, they're sometimes frustratingly vague. So as to not commit the same offence myself, let me ask very specifically about one measure that would make the biggest difference in the everyday situation of those people who are differentially treated in our justice system: mandatory minimums.
Can we expect any initiative from this government to reduce or eliminate mandatory minimums except for the most serious crimes, and if there's not going to be initiative from the government, will the government support the bill on mandatory minimums that's making its way through the Senate, S-208, which gives discretion back to judges to not impose them?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
I'm well aware of Senator Pate's bill, and I've discussed it with her.
As you know, we have a system of cabinet confidences, so I can't always answer in the most fulsome way. What I can say is that mandatory minimums and the related point of conditional sentences—the possibility of having conditional sentences—are on my radar screen.
I'm sorry I can't do better than that.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thanks very much, Mr. Minister.
Madam Chair, I'll conclude my questions there because I think we're going to be short of time on the next part as well.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
That is very gracious of you, Mr. Garrison. I really appreciate it.
That concludes our rounds of questioning. What I would like to do before we say good-bye to our wonderful minister and officials is—
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
I have a point of order. Sorry, Madam Chair.
I thought in our schedule today.... I mean, we only have so many opportunities to have the minister here. I think the conversation's going well. We're getting some answers and so on.
I thought we were having the minister until a quarter to one.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
You are absolutely right, Mr. Moore, with respect to having the minister available for as much time as we can as a committee. My concern is that I need us to vote on the main estimates and the supplementary estimates, and then for us to talk about committee business, specifically with respect to bills that are appearing before our committee.
I would also like to get Madam Findlay's questions on the record so that we can get some answers.
That's why I'm taking the discretion not to go to the last 10 minutes of questions. Obviously, what I have on the schedule is around five minutes of Conservatives and five minutes of Liberals remaining from this round. I've taken the liberty of docking that time so that we can use it put Madam Findlay's questions on the record so that we can get answers to them; vote on the main and supplementary estimates; and go over the witnesses for the next couple of weeks.
Is that okay with you, Mr. Moore?
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Not to belabour it, but I guess I could be asking the Minister a question during this time. However, I don't think we can vote on the supplementary estimates because we haven't heard any answers to questions on them. I understand why we didn't deal with the supplementary estimates because the Human Rights Commission couldn't appear, but in light of the fact that the minister came prepared to deal with the main estimates and not the supplementary estimates, and that we weren't able to get answers on questions related to the supplementary estimates like Madam Findlay's, I don't think we can proceed with a vote on the supplementary estimates today.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
That's absolutely fair, Mr. Moore. Thank you.
I had put this question to the committee before we started the questions. I do remember that I had received thumbs-up to continue with the supplementary estimates from all of you, but if you have since then reconsidered, that's absolutely fine.
What we'll do is this: During committee business, we'll discuss a later time to have the agencies relevant to the supplementary estimates come before our committee to answer those very important questions you have.
October 29th, 2020 / 12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Madam Chair, I have a point of order.
I participated in that thumbs-up vote, and I believe there was consensus among the committee members, but perhaps we could have a vote on that.
I do think it's important, with regard to Ms. Findlay's points, that if the individuals or organizations relating to the supplementary estimates aren't appearing, her questions should definitely be put on the record and she should be provided with written responses. However, as to the issue of whether or not we're having another meeting on the supplementary estimates, perhaps that could be put to a vote of the committee members.
Thank you.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
On a point of order, Madam Chair, I was one of the people who gave a thumbs-up because I assumed that the minister would be in the position to respond to whatever questions were put. He was not in a position to do so, and neither were his officials here. None of them could respond to any of my questions on the commission's spending, nor did they say they were able to discuss anything with respect to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. That is fine, but it definitely changes my support for our going ahead with a vote before we have the information we need.