Justice Committee on May 6th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 32 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Today, we have MP Stéphane Lauzon replacing Randeep Sarai.

Welcome. Bonjour. Bienvenue, Stéphane. It's really great to have you here today.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I'll just outline a few of the rules.

Interpretation services are available to you. Just click on the globe icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen. You should select the language you would like to listen to. You can speak either of our two official languages and interpretation will pick it up.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. Everybody is on the video conference. Just make sure that your microphone is unmuted before you speak, and once you're done speaking, make sure that you are back on mute.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. With regard to the speaking list, Mr. Clerk and I will do our best to ensure an orderly list of speakers when you're participating and would like to speak.

Before we go to our study on elder abuse, we have to approve the report from the subcommittee meeting of Tuesday. The report was distributed to members electronically yesterday.

If there are no comments on it, do I have agreement of members to adopt this report?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Wonderful. Thank you very much.

Now, just very quickly, members will recall that at the subcommittee meeting, Mr. Clerk had undertaken to inquire about the status of the translation delays of our committee documents.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Clerk to give us an update on that.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Here's what I found out.

The Translation Bureau now is currently operating at full capacity and has tried to get as much help as possible internally and externally. Unfortunately, it has not been able to always overcome the normal translation delays lately. At this point, additional delays may be expected, depending upon the context of our translation request—for instance, the complexity of the briefs the committee is receiving, the format, and so on.

The good news is that the House of Commons, the Senate and the Library of Parliament are meeting weekly with the bureau to talk about translation priorities arising from committee activities. As your clerk, I will make sure that if the need arises during the upcoming weeks prior to the summer recess, our priorities will be communicated at the weekly meeting.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I appreciate that update.

Does any member have any questions or comments? Please address them to me and Mr. Clerk via email, or I'll be in touch with you as well, if you need to speak on this further.

I would like to now welcome our witnesses.

From the Department of Employment and Social Development we have Kristen Underwood.

Mr. Garrison, do you have a question on the previous topic?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

It's on the topic of our agenda for today. I just have a question.

When we're starting a new study, we normally hear from ministers, and I believe we issued an invitation to the Minister for Seniors. I'm just curious about the scheduling of ministers to appear before the committee, because when we embark on a study, it's important for us to know what initiatives the government is planning and has under way so that we can give a context to the study we're doing. I am thus disappointed that we do not have the Minister for Seniors here today at the beginning of this important study.

Do we have any indication as to whether the minister does in fact intend to appear before the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thanks for that, Mr. Garrison. I will look into it with Mr. Clerk, and we'll get back to you with an update, if that's okay.

From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Kristen Underwood, director general, seniors and pensions policy secretariat. We also have Susan MacPhee, acting director general, social innovation and community development, Income Security and Social Development Branch.

From the Department of Justice we have Carole Morency, the director general and senior general counsel, criminal law policy section in the policy sector, and we have Joanne Klineberg, the acting general counsel, criminal law policy section.

I understand that Ms. Morency has made it to the meeting, which is wonderful.

We'll go to opening statements from the two departments. Take note that I have a “one-minute remaining” card and a “30-seconds remaining” card to help you keep track of your time. Both of you have five minutes to make your opening statements.

We'll start with the Department of Employment and Social Development.

Please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Kristen Underwood, Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Terrific.

Madam Chair, committee members, I want to thank you very much for the opportunity today to meet with you as you begin your study on elder abuse. It seems like we're up first, so that's great to start with us.

It's a pleasure to be here virtually on behalf of Employment and Social Development Canada. As noted, I'm joined today by my colleague Susan MacPhee from the new horizons for seniors program.

Seniors are an important part of our social fabric and contribute to the rich diversity of Canada. That's why the government is committed to seeking widespread stakeholder views on seniors' issues so that older Canadians can age with dignity while experiencing the best health possible and social and economic security.

Elder abuse is an important human rights issue, as well as a social and public health issue that can undermine a person's quality of life, autonomy, dignity and sense of security. Both men and women are living longer and healthier lives than before and are projected to live even longer into the future. Seniors are the fastest-growing demographic in Canada. In 2020, 18% of Canadians were 65 years of age or older, and it's projected by the end of the 2030s that close to one-quarter of Canadians will be 65 years of age or older.

We recognize that elder abuse is a serious issue affecting many older people in Canada and even more so in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has contributed to further isolating seniors. Physical distancing around the COVID-19 pandemic has put seniors at increased risk of abuse since so many seniors are living in isolation and do not have access to their usual community supports and social connections.

The COVID-19 pandemic has also highlighted systematic, long-standing challenges in our long-term care system. We're deeply saddened and disappointed by the significant and disproportionate toll that COVID-19 is having on seniors living in long-term care homes and other congregate living settings. The Government of Canada values the many contributions made by seniors to our nation, and that's why the government's working to implement measures to help improve the lives of seniors and their families.

Each year the government provides $70 million in funding through the new horizons for seniors program, NHSP, to senior-serving organizations across Canada. While one of the five objectives of the NHSP is to raise awareness of elder abuse, the overarching goal of the program is to increase the social inclusion of seniors. By increasing the social inclusion of seniors in communities this can help us to reduce the prevalence of elder abuse, as seniors face a greater risk of abuse when isolated.

Funded organizations aim to address key issues facing seniors, such as elder abuse, through projects that raise awareness of elder abuse, connect seniors with others in their community, and provide navigational support to help seniors find community resources and services they need.

Elder abuse can take on several different forms, such as neglect or physical, psychological or financial abuse. These can have negative effects on older adults and their families. One of the most frequently identified types of elder abuse is financial abuse. That's why the National Seniors Council, as part of their three-year work plan from 2018 to 2021, examined and identified measures to reduce crimes and harms against seniors. To support this work, the council hosted an expert round table and a town hall to identify promising practices and discuss new measures to reduce financial crimes and harms against seniors.

In August 2019, the National Seniors Council published a “What We Heard” report based on their round tables. It found that while the Government of Canada has a leadership role to play in establishing and maintaining policies, programs and services that support seniors, other levels of government, community organizations and the private sector are all vital partners in addressing financial crimes and harms perpetrated against seniors.

The government is committed to raising awareness about fraud and scam-related activities. It does this through a number of mechanisms, including news releases, social media posts and the Minister of Seniors' newsletter. In the past year alone, the newsletter, which engages close to 10,000 seniors and stakeholders across Canada, has covered themes such as fraud and scams.

The government is committed to strengthening the approach to elder abuse. The recent mandate letters of theMinister of Seniors, the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Canada stated that they will work together to strengthen Canada's approach to elder abuse, including “to create a national definition of elder abuse, invest in better data collection and law enforcement related to elder abuse and establish new...penalties in the Criminal Code”. This was also reiterated in the Speech from the Throne.

Through all these measures, the government is seeking to improve the safety and security of seniors so they can age with dignity in the best possible health. Of course, there's much more to be done. The government looks forward to continuing to work with stakeholders to support Canada's seniors of today and tomorrow.

Madam Chair, honoured committee members, I trust that your report will contribute to combatting elder abuse and will support the Government of Canada in future policy actions in this area.

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Ms. Underwood.

We'll now go to the Department of Justice for five minutes.

Go ahead, Madame Morency.

[Carole Morency, Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice]

Good morning.

We are pleased to be here today to discuss the criminal law’s responses to senior abuse and neglect and related efforts by the Department of Justice.

Senior abuse and neglect is an issue of concern not only for the criminal justice system but also for other sectors including the health sector. It is also an issue for the federal and provincial and territorial governments.

As the committee knows, responsibility for Canada's criminal justice system is shared. The federal government is responsible for the criminal law and procedure and the provinces and territories are principally responsible for the administration of justice, including policing, prosecution and the provision of services and assistance to victims of crime.

The delivery of health services and long-term care are also matters under provincial and territorial jurisdiction. Each of the provinces and territories has a unique approach to addressing senior abuse such as through laws that address the abuse of vulnerable adults. At the federal level, the Criminal Code protects seniors against abuse and neglect through numerous offences of general application. It contains a comprehensive set of offences prohibiting various forms of assault, including threats of harm and sexual assault, as well as negligence-based offences that prohibit failing to provide necessary care to seniors, or providing necessary care but in a significantly deficient manner.

The Criminal Code also contains a comprehensive set of financial crimes that capture financially motivated crimes specifically targeting seniors. These crimes include theft and fraud, which have very broad application and include specific forms of wrongdoing, like theft by a person holding a power of attorney. There are also crimes involving a combination of violence or threats and property taking, such as extortion and robbery.

The Criminal Code further contains sentencing measures that may be applicable where a senior is criminally victimized. For instance, under section 718.2, the following are deemed to be aggravating for sentencing purposes: where the offence was motivated by bias, prejudice, or hate based on age, among other factors; where the offender abused a position of trust or authority in relation to the victim; and where the offence had a significant impact on the victim, considering their age and other personal circumstances, including their health and financial situation.

With respect to certain fraud-related offences, the Criminal Code also lists additional offence-specific aggravating factors, including where the fraud involved a large number of victims and had a significant impact on the victim given their personal circumstances, which includes their age, health and financial situation. These aggravating factors would apply, for instance, in the context of a large-scale financial fraud that targets seniors.

Recently enacted section 718.04 of the Criminal Code also directs the courts to give primary consideration to the objectives of denunciation and deterrence for any offence involving the abuse of a person who is vulnerable because of personal circumstances. This includes vulnerability due to age.

Courts consistently treat senior abuse as an aggravating factor in cases involving criminal negligence, assault and fraud. Justice Canada is also addressing senior abuse through program and policy related initiatives. The victims fund, for example, is available to provincial and territorial governments and non-governmental organizations to support projects that address the needs of victims, including senior victims, and recently made the amount of $1 million available for the development or updating of public legal education and information materials to support victims of senior abuse and neglect.

Our research and statistics division is also working with Statistics Canada and others, and is leading a study to explore the feasibility and the challenges of addressing national data gaps in senior abuse, including in reporting senior abuse in long-term care. We expect that report to be available in 2022.

I appreciate the opportunity to inform the committee about ongoing activities within the Department of Justice on the issue of senior abuse and neglect.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Madame Morency.

We'll now go into our first round of questions for six minutes each starting with Mr. Moore.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today to start off our committee study on what is a very important subject, and what has become even more important and more visible over the last year.

In the Criminal Code there are general offences for assault, for fraud, and for emotional abuse such as threats. The Protecting Canada's Seniors Act that was introduced by the former Conservative government, of which I was a part, implemented further protections for seniors by establishing sentencing principles that take into account the age, health, and financial situation of the victim.

Maybe Ms. Morency, you could expand a bit more on how defining elder abuse in the Criminal Code could build upon that act and establish further protections for seniors. I think this is something that we all care deeply about, but we want to make sure any actions we take will have a positive outcome.

[Carole Morency]

Sure. Thank you for the question.

As was noted, the Criminal Code was amended in 2012 to add that aggravating factor. One of the challenges that were discussed by Parliament at the time was how to define “senior”, and the interest at the time was to ensure that offences that targeted persons in that category would be treated more seriously by the criminal law. As Parliament considered that bill, the way it was actually enacted as it was introduced, it landed on basically that the person's vulnerability can be determined by a number of factors.

Chronological age is an important factor, to be sure, and that's one of the points that are listed in that factor. But it could also be a combination of other things such as their health and their personal, financial, or other circumstances. The aggravating factor as enacted in 2012 said to sentencing courts, “Look at all of those things together. A person who is 60 but who has poor health and is vulnerable for other circumstances could be just as vulnerable as a person who is, let's say, chronologically older, like 85, for other conditions.”

That's how it was enacted, and I can say that when we look at reported case law, the courts absolutely are giving specific attention to these factors. They do look at it as a form of general and specific deterrence, and they do look at the combined personal circumstances of the victim to determine whether or not that person was vulnerable because of those factors, as well as whether there was a relationship of trust or dependency between the victim and the offender.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you.

You mentioned the financial offences, and I think those are becoming very prevalent. If other members are like me, they also often hear in their offices heartbreaking stories from seniors about being targeted by financial offences.

I had a call the other night from someone saying I needed to press “1” because there was some kind of major problem and I just had to enter my social insurance number. I mean, this is happening on a regular basis and the reason it happens is that somebody is pressing 1. A lot of us will just hang up now when we get those calls, but enough people are pressing 1 that seniors, as well as others, continue to be targeted.

I'm talking more about offences that take place by people who know the individual personally, people who are getting into a position of trust. Can you speak a bit to that, to some of the typical types of financial crimes that are committed against seniors?

[Joanne Klineberg, Acting General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice]

I can answer that question. Thank you.

I think the offences of theft and fraud, which Ms. Morency mentioned in her opening statement, are quite broadly drafted and apply to a wide range of circumstances because there are various ways in which people can obtain the financial and other sorts of economic resources of victims.

Theft, in principle, is the idea of obtaining through taking without having authority to take; and fraud, in principle, can really be thought of as persuading, through some form of trickery or deception, the victim to give you their property in circumstances that are marked by dishonesty in some way.

The particular modalities of the way these offences can be committed are not expressly set out through these general offences. They're more framed around the basic ideas of taking without permission or obtaining through some kind of deception.

There are in the Criminal Code a variety of other more specifically framed criminal offences. I think most charges that we see will fall under the rubric of either theft or fraud and there can be a substantial amount of overlap between those offences. Some forms of wrongdoing can be prosecuted as both theft and fraud, and in those particular cases, the Crown may choose to proceed under one or the other.

They would be the main types of offences that we would see charged in these kinds of cases, even though there is, for instance, a specific offence of obtaining funds through the misuse of a power of attorney. Even that form of conduct can be captured as fraud, because that's a dishonest and unauthorized use of the permission that a person has that would equate to dishonest behaviour.

The predominant charges we see in these types of cases are likely fraud, where there is some deception that takes place that leads—

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you.

Sorry, Ms. Klineberg. We're over time here for Mr. Moore.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Hopefully we can continue on this with Mr. Kelloway.

Please go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and hello to my colleagues and the witnesses. This is an important study, to say the least.

My questions are going to be directed toward the officials from the Department of Justice.

First, I have a comment. The first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic highlighted the mistreatment of so many of our seniors living in long-term care. It was devastating to hear stories of the living conditions and treatment of patients. As Canadians, I think, and I know, we're better than that.

Therefore, these are my questions.

Do we have specific data regarding elder abuse in institutional settings; and how does this vary by province?

[Carole Morency]

As I mentioned at the tail end of my remarks, this is one of the areas that we are working on to get a better sense of the data in the broader context, including in the long-term care facility. We're working with Statistics Canada on that.

That said, the committee might wish to consider whether there are some officials from Statistics Canada who might have a bit more information directly germane to that. The committee might also be aware that a number of studies or commissions are under way or have recently concluded, at least in Ontario last week, and Quebec has another review under way, as well.

That is a matter that would be beyond our area of responsibility, but I think there are certainly two things. One, there is some data that is available from some of those other bodies. Two, I think we would all agree, nonetheless, that the continuing circumstances of the pandemic have certainly highlighted the need to get better data, and that was known even before the pandemic.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's a great point on that.

I want to continue with the Department of Justice.

As we work with provinces and territories to improve the conditions in long-term care, can you tell the committee whether there are any regulatory offences, in the jurisdictions we control, for long-term care volunteers that would be beneficial in eliminating elder abuse? If so, what would that look like?

[Joanne Klineberg]

I will take a stab at this, but I just want to make sure I understand your question. You say regulatory offences in the areas that we control, meaning the Parliament of Canada?

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's correct.

[Joanne Klineberg]

I don't know that we, in the Department of Justice, would be responsible for any such regulatory offences, our responsibility really being limited to the Criminal Code. If that's what you're asking about I can address that.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes, please do.