Justice Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I call the meeting to order.

I call this meeting to order.

If you can't hear me, I suggest you put your microphones on. I have to let you know that I have an infection in both of my ears, so I will do my best.

Welcome to meeting 119 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

The committee is meeting in public to begin its study of Bill C-270, an act to amend the Criminal Code with respect to pornographic material. The bill was referred to this committee on May 8.

Based on a conversation I had with Mr. Brock last meeting, in which he indicated that the sponsor of the bill will not be attending to be a witness, I need direction. The committee has to tell us how you would like to begin, so we can begin the study, whether the sponsor wishes to proceed with it or not.

I'm ready to give the floor to members.

Mr. Maloney.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I wasn't privy to that conversation. I must say I'm very disappointed to hear that.

In the over nine years I've been a member of Parliament, it has without exception been my experience that people who introduce private member's bills are passionate about their issue. They're quite anxious to appear at committee to share their insights into why the issue is so important to them and enlighten the committee members as to why they should support it.

As I'm thinking and talking, I am quite astonished by the fact this individual is not available or not willing to come to the committee to speak to his bill. I've seen him in the House recently, so we know he's around.

Just to make the wishes of the committee crystal clear, I would like to move this motion:

That the committee invite Arnold Viersen, as the sponsor of Bill C-270, to appear for one hour as soon as possible to begin committee consideration of this legislation.

That's the legislation we are tasked with dealing with.

I can't imagine there would be any opposition to this motion around the table, but I guess I remain to be surprised, as I sometimes am, by events at the committee and in Parliament.

There it is. I hope we can deal with this in very fast order, so we can move on to other pressing business. I do have another motion I would like to table subsequently, which I will deal with later. It deals with extending the time for this committee to consider the bill by 30 days, given the delay that has taken place so far.

I would like to deal with the motion inviting Mr. Viersen first. I'd be interested in hearing from other members of the committee on their views.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Mr. Maloney.

I have two hands up. I have Mr. MacGregor first and Mr. Brock second.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Similar to Mr. Maloney, I am perplexed by the reluctance of Mr. Viersen to come and defend his own piece of legislation. Honestly, from my perspective, that's not much of a vote of confidence, if the sponsor of the bill is unwilling to come before a committee.

Similar to Mr. Maloney, I've been here for nine years. Only once have I had the opportunity to appear before a committee to defend a private member's bill. That was just recently, with the national strategy on brain injuries act. I appeared before the Standing Committee on Health. Without a doubt, it was one of the highlights of my career over the last nine years. You get to sit in the hot seat. You get to defend your bill and take questions from members. I don't know why anyone would willingly give that up.

We cannot compel Mr. Viersen to appear. As he is a member of Parliament, we cannot do that. We can certainly formally send the invite.

Again, I just remain completely perplexed as to why the sponsor of a piece of legislation would not take this very rare opportunity.

I'll leave it at that, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have spoken with Mr. Viersen. He is open to the invitation. Conservatives will be voting in favour of Mr. Maloney's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Maloney.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I would be interested to hear from Mr. Brock, now that we have that good news, as to when that might happen.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm not privy to that information. It is not at my disposal right now, but he is open to the invitation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

For the purpose of trying to suggest dates here for you with the clerk, I will say that my hope is that the anti-Semitism draft is completed today. We will then have one more meeting to complete the report on Islamophobia.

After that, we are open for new items. At the moment, we have no other items that take precedence over this private member's bill, Bill C-270.

The question is.... We would like him to appear, probably, a week from today. That would be the....

I think I have people putting their hands up.

Mr. Mendicino.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to my colleague, Mr. Maloney, for bringing the motion. Of course, I'll be supporting it.

I also want to thank Mr. Brock for indicating that the Conservatives will be voting in favour of it as well.

I want to seek some clarification, though, Madam Chair, because at the outset of the meeting, you indicated that you'd had a conversation with Mr. Brock, who said to you at the time that Mr. Viersen had no intention of appearing before the committee. I take it from the Conservatives' support of this motion that Mr. Viersen has reconsidered his position and will indeed attend. In light of that revelation, I would just urge that we seek a confirmation of a date from Mr. Viersen as quickly as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Mr. Maloney.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I was going to say something very similar to Mr. Mendicino.

I don't see any reason that we can't get an answer to the question about next Thursday sometime today, so that we can plan accordingly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Does that make...?

Mr. Brock, as the vice-chair, I guess, and the chair of your caucus on this committee, are you able to undertake to get a commitment today for next Thursday?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I can relay the wishes of this committee.

As I've indicated, Mr. Viersen has indicated that he is open to the invitation. I am not a staff member of Mr. Viersen's office. I am not going to waste any valuable time at this committee to stand down and try to locate him or a member of his staff to check his availability.

However, I've taken to heart all of the comments from all of the members, and I will pass them on to Mr. Viersen's office.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I respect that. We hope to get an affirmative answer, then, as soon as possible in order to plan our schedule for next Thursday.

Is there anything else on this particular matter that anyone else wants to mention?

[A voice]

Do you mean on the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Yes, I mean on the motion or on Bill C-270.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

It sounds like we have consensus on this motion.

There is a second motion I'd like to deal with more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Should I take a vote?

No, I'll just take account of the fact that it's unanimous.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I would take a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

You would like to have a vote.

Can we have a vote, please?

I'm easy today.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

Thank you.

Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I think it's highly unusual.... Granted, I don't have the experience level of many members of this committee, but I think it's highly irregular, if not unusual and not as per appropriate committee protocol, for any member other than the chair, working with the clerk, to issue a formal invitation to any witness—in this case Mr. Viersen.

I don't think it's incumbent upon me, although he's a colleague and a member of the Conservative caucus.... I think it's a requirement of the chair, working in concert with the clerk, to issue the formal invitation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Mr. Maloney.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Brock's point is duly noted. However, he did inform the committee that he has obviously spoken to Mr. Viersen, because he told us that he was open to the invitation. That doesn't tell us that he's willing to accept the invitation. As a matter of courtesy, since we're all now unanimous in the view that he should attend, it makes sense that he could speak to one of his colleagues, whom he sees and talks to more frequently than the rest of us do, to help us along the way. I don't see that as being unreasonable.