Evidence of meeting #119 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
I actually support calling a vote. I'm going to cede my spot and just let us go to a vote.
Liberal
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Again, I'm going to take people back to the summer. On July 31, 2024, the status of women committee sat. There's a real overlap right now in terms of what's happening in status of women and the justice failures in this country.
An emergency meeting was called in July.
For people who don't know, committees don't sit in the summer, but this emergency meeting was called because StatsCan released these shocking statistics. Since 2015, when Justin Trudeau came into power, all we've seen is this rapid increase of crime across this country: Total sexual assaults are up 75%; sexual violations against children, which is pertinent to this study, Bill C-270, are up 119%; forcible confinement or kidnapping is up 11%—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
As a point of order or, I guess, a point of relevance, what is the relevance of that to asking for the extension for 30 days?
To reiterate one last time—I will not do it again; I've done it on and on—if we don't have an extension, the bill cannot proceed to be studied at all. Full stop. That's it. Do we want to study the bill, or do we not?
As the chair, I am asking the committee, and you can vote on it. Either you want to study it, or you don't.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Madam Chair, I am being very relevant. That is exactly what I've been trying to say. We one hundred per cent want to study the failed justice in this country. We want to do that one hundred per cent.
Why am I talking about what happened on July 31, 2024? It's because the exact same thing is happening in this justice committee. We brought forward survivors and victims, which is exactly what we want to do.
The Liberals have gotten hung up on one witness rather than the meat and potatoes of this actual bill—
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Madam Chair, I hate interrupting someone, but on a point of order, I need to call relevance.
The question before the committee right now is whether we agree to a 30-day extension or not. All arguments and comments should be in support of that. We should not be talking about what other committees did during the summer.
I have great tales about what the public safety committee did during the summer, too, but the question before the committee right now is whether we agree to a 30-day extension on Bill C-270.
Madam Chair, I would ask that you enforce relevance, because I want to see commentary specifically for or against that particular point.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
You don't have to agree on the extension. We can simply vote on it and move on.
Mr. Brock has a point of order.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
It's not incumbent on any member of this committee to opine on relevance, as my friend and colleague, Ms. Ferreri, is just starting her intervention. There's no time limit. There's no document that specifies that relevant points must be immediately addressed by a member or that they can speak for only a limited amount of time and a percentage of that has to be on relevant points. There's always a degree of latitude exercised by chairs of all committees.
In my view, because the majority of us are lawyers, relevance is very subjective. It's not an objective term. I'm sure at some point in time, Ms. Ferreri, if she is given the opportunity for a fulsome intervention without unnecessary points of order, will loop it around to relevant issues germane to Mr. Maloney's motion.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
You're welcome.
I guess, because we have all practised law for some period or another, the judge also has the ability to determine whether it's relevant or not. I know that is not relevant.
Ms. Ferreri, either speak on the 30-day extension or please cease to speak so I can give it to another member, because we need to get back to relevance.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Can you turn your name tag around?
Go ahead, Mr. Nater. Thank you.
October 31st, 2024 / 12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
I've only been here nine years. It's all good.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am a temporary substitute on this committee.
I just want to point out that you did mention that we have all practised law. I just want to clarify that I have not practised law. I am not a lawyer. I come from a political science background. I just want to clarify for the record that I am not a lawyer. I have not been called to the bar. I do not practice law. I just want to make sure that is clarified for the record, Madam Chair.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you so much for the clarification. I remember the first couple of years we were on this committee, a number of members were clarifying things like that.
Thank you, and welcome, as a substitute.
All right, where do we go back to?
Ms. Ferreri, go ahead.
Are you a lawyer, by the way?
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
I will give you a bit of leeway then, but a bit does not mean a lot.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Okay. I would love to be a lawyer.
Listen, it's interesting that they don't want this brought up. It's obvious that they don't want it brought up, because it's the same thing. It's very relevant to what we're going to talk about. Since I have the floor, I'll bring it up.
The NDP and the Liberals don't want to talk about what happened in July, because it was an absolute disgrace to victims and survivors. This bill is about victims and survivors, so of course we want to study this bill.
What happened? Well, it was the same thing that is happening right now. We called an emergency meeting to talk about these stats, and a Liberal member of Parliament hijacked survivors and victims with a motion on abortion. It was the most disgusting, appalling thing we have ever seen. We had victims and survivors and their parents in tears—screaming, yelling, leaving—and the Liberal member threatening on camera to bring up an abortion motion every single time, just so that we don't have to talk about the failures of Justin Trudeau and what's he's done on crime in this country. That's the reality.
Why is that relevant? It's because it doesn't matter if the sponsor of the bill comes to testify. What matters is that we have experts, victims and survivors come to this committee, this committee on justice, to testify about these stats.
This is not made up, Madam Chair. This is the committee of justice. Nobody at home cares about who said what, when and how. They care about changing the law to protect children in particular, our most vulnerable, and women. We have an epidemic in this country under this Prime Minister, who is blatantly a fake feminist.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
What the Liberals are doing here is that they want.... They're stuck on one piece of this conversation. They're stuck because they want one witness to testify, the sponsor, and that has nothing to do with the meat and potatoes.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
On a point of order, now we are off topic, because the very simple point of this motion is to get an extension of time so that we can discuss it. Once we get that extension, then we can talk about who the witnesses are. We can get back to the issue about Mr. Viersen's apparent refusal to come here. We can debate the merits and why he doesn't want to do that.
If they are so interested in getting to the study and doing it, they should end the debate now and vote yes. Then we can get back to the topic that we should be talking about, which is the anti-Semitism study.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
If there is no extension, we will not be able to get witnesses. We have no time. Are you not listening? Do we have to show the calendar again? We're out of time. We need to extend in order to bring witnesses. Whether it's Mr. Viersen or not is a separate issue; we don't have any more time.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Absolutely, I'm listening. I would throw that back to you too, Madam Chair, and to the members of this committee. That is the whole....
This has become cloaked. What they've done is they've put forward a motion that is cloaked. What they're really looking for is the sponsor of the bill to testify. It's blatant. It's on Twitter—
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
—and that's fine, but they're not acknowledging the survivors and victims, as they have done repeatedly in other committees. That is what I'm trying to convey to you.
It comes back to the anti-Semitism study. It comes back to the rise in crime. It comes back to all the same things over and over again. You have a Prime Minister who tells one group of MPs to say one thing and another group of MPs to say another thing. He himself goes and tells one thing to people in one room and another thing to people in another room, all while public safety...while crime runs rampant in this country.
I will wrap it up there, but I think it is important that folks at home recognize how much the Liberals don't want to speak about what their tried, true and tested tactic is, as my colleague Mr. Brock has brought up multiple times. They just want to deflect and turn it, because the economy is failing; food bank usage is at the highest in history; kids are using food banks in record numbers; housing has doubled; public safety is gone—
