Evidence of meeting #119 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you, Ms. Ferreri.
I have a list here. I will now go to Mr. Jivani.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Since we've confirmed that an invitation to Mr. Viersen has been resent, can we not wait for him to respond to that invitation, and can we move forward on the anti-Semitism study? Is that not an option for the committee? The clerk is confirming that it's being resent. Can't—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Yes, Mr. MacGregor, on a point of order.
We have a problem with this.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I think it might be helpful to all members if you, as the chair, confer with the clerk, just to let us all know what the dates are that we're working with here.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
That's the problem I've been telling you for weeks. That's what I've been saying, with the clerk, for weeks. We have an issue with the date. If he does not appear or we don't study it, we risk not being able to.
Could you give me a moment? Thank you.
October 31st, 2024 / 11:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
I just spoke with the clerk, and I'll to try to relay what he just explained to me.
I'm going to try to explain it, but then I might ask for clarification.
Monday is the date that we have to report it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Yes, because it's the last day that we can vote on the 30-day extension.
If the 30-day extension is not approved now, we risk not being able to do it anymore, because November 19 is the day this has to go back. November 19 is a Tuesday, and normally they're done the Wednesday before. We don't sit the Remembrance Day week. That is November 6, so we are on a very tight deadline. This is not a joke. This is very serious. I've been saying this for weeks, and that's why I was trying to do my best here as the chair.
I think we all believe there is merit in this PMB. Everybody would like to study it, because there is merit in the contents. We are on a deadline now. We risk not being able to do anything with it, so then what? That is the question. The sponsor can choose to pull it back and not deal with it, or I don't know what the option is. I suppose you can amend it any way you want, but how would you do that if you don't study it? Then if it goes to the House without being studied, I think that would be a shame, and that would not be something you would want the justice and human rights committee to do.
We've known this for weeks. This is not new. I know we've been meeting in camera, but I've been saying that now for weeks.
The clerk can explain it a little more, in case....
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Jean-François Lafleur
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to help out here.
The thing is that November 4 is the last possible date to adopt a motion for an extension. First, we have to adopt a motion. Second, we have to report it to the House, so it would be on the Tuesday morning. When you report it, the vote is deemed asked and then postponed to the next Wednesday. The next possible Wednesday is November 6.
Since the deadline date has moved a bit but not further to the other Wednesday, if you follow me, the deadline for us to adopt a report to ask for an extension remains November 4, because we can't go any further with this.
For us, it doesn't change anything. We still have to vote, at the latest, on November 6, because if we continue further and try to vote for November 19, the deadline will have passed, and then the bill will be deemed to be referred back to the House without amendment.
Those are the steps and the requirements, deadline, whatever. That's how it works.
I hope I have been clear enough.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Mr. Jivani, do you have a question? Do you need clarification on that?
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
I do, yes. I just want to confirm that this framing that is happening right now, that somehow the timetable is contingent on a particular witness coming forward, does not actually hinge on this timetable. We could just start studying this, and we don't have to actually wait for a specific witness. Is that correct?
The Clerk
If you want an extension, it has to be, at the latest, on Monday. The rest, on how to manage whether a sponsor would come or not—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
To Mr. Jivani's question, I believe the answer is no. We have no time, but I just.... The 4th is Monday. We can't study it beyond that, because we've lost the time.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
I understand.
Let's just study it, then. What's being presented today is, I believe, a false framing, which is why I'm asking for confirmation that somehow we need a particular witness to agree to appear in order for us to commit to studying this.
Can we not just commit to studying it? Why is there a delay?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
We still need the 30-day extension, because we've now lost the time. Whether he appears or not is a secondary issue.
We need the 30-day extension, because we've now lost the time.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
That's fine, but I want to confirm that whether he appears or not is secondary.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
It's 30 sitting days. Isn't that how it's worded? Otherwise, no, it cannot be studied anymore.
I had an original.... I don't know where we go from here.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Madam Chair, can we have a health break for five to 10 minutes, so I can consult with my team, please? Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
We will resume.
Mr. Brock, you were next on the list, but perhaps you can tell us where you've landed with the team, if possible.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm ready to speak. Thank you, Madam Chair.
If all members will recall, for at least two weeks, whenever the issue of Bill C-270 has come up, along with the issue of the availability of the sponsor, I have always confirmed the availability of a number of witnesses, and I may have even provided a list of, potentially, up to eight or nine witnesses.
The push-back I seem to recall receiving on each and every occasion was, “Well, that's fine,” but there was never any expression of any interest from the chair or the clerk to ask for that list with a view to scheduling and inviting those witnesses to attend. It was always my belief—and I think precedent certainly confirms this—that a study does not, each and every time, have to commence with the sponsor of the bill. If there are witnesses ready and able to offer insight on this particular topic, on which we have subject matter experts—
Liberal