Justice Committee on June 21st, 2022

[Emilie Coyle]

In my experience with the people we work with, because they are serving time in prison for harm, I think that we have—and I said this in my remarks—an opportunity to look at how we determine accountability in this country. Whether a prison sentence is five years or 10 years, if somebody is not able to heal because they don't have the psychological or therapeutic supports, then the length of the sentence doesn't matter.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Sullivan, I don't have much time left, so I'll be brief.

In your opinion, which of the services victims should receive is the most important, psychological support or legal assistance?

[Steve Sullivan]

The unique thing about impaired driving is that, in most provinces, victims of impaired driving are not eligible for compensation programs because their last resort.... Many victims of impaired driving have access to insurance and settlements. They can sometimes get that kind of support through their insurance settlements, but obviously, like everybody else, they're in long waiting lines to get access to professional help.

I would say that it's incredibly important. When we talk with victims and survivors for the first time, it's one of the things we ask them if they have access to. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they're struggling to find it, but it's incredibly important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Sullivan.

Thank you, Monsieur Fortin.

Mr. Garrison, you have six minutes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Again, I want to thank the witnesses for sharing personal stories with us today and reliving those traumas.

I'm going to do something unfashionable as an MP and say that I learned a couple of things again today. I'm shocked to find that victims of impaired drivers are excluded from victim services in many cases. I've worked in the criminal justice system a long time, but mostly at the federal level, and I understand that it's largely provincial.

I wonder if, Mr. Sullivan, you have any suggestion or if there is anything we could do at the federal level to try to tackle that exclusion.

[Steve Sullivan]

I don't know what you could do at the federal level. You know that we have the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights, but every province and territory has their own victims bill of rights, and they also fund their own services, which are very different from province to province, so they decide who's eligible for which programs.

Going back decades, I know that the federal government used to have a cost-sharing agreement with the provinces for compensation, to the effect that “We will fund this if you do these things”. That might be a solution, but at the end of the day, provinces vary, and some will recognize victims of impaired driving and others will not.

Some recognize them as victims of tragic circumstances. Coming from a community-based victim organization in Ontario, I know that how victims are defined is relevant to your funding. If these victims walk through your door, you might get more funding; if those victims walk through your door, you might get less funding. Those are really important things, but they're all provincial and so, in the federal government, I think the leverage is obviously funding.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thanks for that important suggestion.

Ms. Coyle, I think you brought an important perspective to the table on victims in pointing out that there's not always a hard line, particularly when it comes to women offenders, between victims and perpetrators.

I just wonder if you could tell us whether you feel there's any consideration given in the court system to women offenders who have been previously victimized, or is this viewed as irrelevant in those criminal proceedings?

[Emilie Coyle]

In our experience, each person who comes before the court is different. In the case of indigenous women, for example, there are the Gladue reports that are often ordered. However, Gladue reports, which are the pre-sentencing reports that look at the social history of indigenous people, are sporadically available across the country. In the Prairies, where most indigenous women come before the courts, they don't have access to those, and that's a real problem for us.

Certainly their experience of being victims in their lives should be brought forward, and that is a good tool to utilize, but it's not available.

No is my short answer, though I did give you a bit of a longer answer there.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

When you're talking about their not being available in the Prairies, is there a particular problem or reason that the Gladue reports aren't available where they might be most needed?

[Emilie Coyle]

My understanding from those provinces is that they're not funded and they're not seen as being important or necessary.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Again, I'm in the business of being shocked today, unfortunately. I think the committee will need to address that.

You talked about the release of women offenders, many of whom have been victimized previously. You talked about some of the unintended consequences of the way parole operates for those women. Can you tell us a little more about that?

[Emilie Coyle]

For people who are serving long or life sentences—a quarter of the people in our federal prisons are serving life sentences—they are going to be subject to parole conditions for the rest of their lives. That means that they will invariably have a relationship with the people who are registered as victims in their case. Those people get a lot of information about where they are and what they're doing. There aren't a great deal of checks and balances with what those people do with that information. It can be leaked to the media, for example, or they could be subject to a harassing letter from a person who is registered as their victim.

I think that in a system where we value rehabilitation and we are looking to heal, we have to be really careful about the interaction between people who are serving longer life sentences and the people who are registered as their victims, so that no further harm is caused.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you for that.

In women's federal institutions in the preparation for release at end of a sentence or preparation for parole, would you say attention is being given to the previous victimization as part of that preparation or not?

[Emilie Coyle]

Every person who is in a prison has their correctional plan. Their correctional plan does detail some of the past history of the person who is going before parole. The parole board member will have access to the correctional plan, but often those are looked upon as risk factors rather than need factors.

In our case, we are always advocating for people to get the services and supports that they need, rather than seeing what has happened in the past as a risk.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison.

That concludes our meeting for today. I want to thank all of the witnesses for attending our final session before the summer break. Thank you very much for coming.

I also want to thank all the members of this committee, as this will conclude the meeting.

I have a little bit of housekeeping to do just before the members go. We have a request for a supplementary project budget. I think that because we're having in-person witnesses, there's an increase of $3,500 for this current study. I just want to know if we're all in favour of that.

Okay, all are in favour.

I also want to thank our clerk. I think it's his last day today at our committee. He won't be here in the fall. We'll be getting a new committee clerk. I think we can all give him a round of applause.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

If there is nothing else, enjoy the rest of the week and have a good summer. We'll see you all back in the fall.

Thank you.