Justice Committee on Aug. 24th, 2022

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. MacLauchlan.

If there are 20 people, for example, who are highly qualified, how do you select a certain number of them?

Basically, my last question is the following. Shouldn't the decision to select candidates based on diversity rest with the Prime Minister? Couldn't the independent advisory board simply assess the qualifications of the candidates, without regard to the racial or cultural group from which they come?

[H. Wade MacLauchlan]

The purpose of the board is to assess the qualifications of the candidates and make a report that leaves the choice of appointment to the Prime Minister.

With respect to diversity, after receiving nominations, our board has a serious task ahead. It must conduct a detailed study, in a collaborative manner, before arriving at a consensus decision on which candidates are qualified for inclusion in the report to the Prime Minister.

Concerning the 12 nominations that were submitted to us, I can say that I was highly impressed with the professional qualities, character and convictions of the nominees, as well as the work they put into submitting their applications.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Monsieur Fortin.

Next I want to welcome Madam Idlout.

We'll go to you, Madam Idlout, for six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᐋ, ᓯᕗᓪᓕᕐᒥ, ᐋ, ᖁᔭᓕᒍᒪᕙᑦᓯ ᐅᓂᒃᑳᑦᓯᐊᖅᑲᐅᒐᑦᓯ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ, ᐋ, ᐅᖃᕈᒪᓪᓗᖓ ᖃᐅᔨᒪᔪᐃᓐᓇᐅᒐᑦᑕ ᑲᓇᑕ ᑐᓐᖓᒻᒪᑦ, ᐋ, ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔫ ᓄᓇᖏᓐᓂ, ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᑦ, ᐋ, ᒪᓕᒐᖃᖅᓯᒪᐃᓐᓇᖅᓱᑕ.

[Inuktitut text translated as follows:]

I would like to thank the delegates who are here to speak to us. We all know that Canada is built on indigenous land. We as indigenous people have always had our own laws.

[English]

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I have a point of order. I'm sorry, but we're not getting the translation. I see that she's speaking it, so it's probably a technical problem. I hear her translating but we don't get it in the earpiece.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

I'm going to have the clerk check on that. It may take a few seconds because I think it's being translated into English and then into French.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᐅᖃᓪᓚᐅᔭᒋᐊᕐᓗᖓ ᓈᒻᒪᑦᓯᓕᕐᒪᖔᖅ ᖃᐅᔨᒋᐊᑲᐃᓐᓇᕐᓂᐊᖅᐳᖓ ᑐᑭᓯ-ᓇᖅᓯᑎᑕᐅᕙᓪᓕᐊᒻᒪᖔᖅ ᖃᐅᔨᒋᐊᕐ-ᓗᑕ, ᐅᖃᓪᓚᐃᓐᓇᕈᓐᓇᖅᑐᖓ, ᓇᓗ-ᓇᐃᖅᑕᐅᒍᒪᕗᖓ ᑲᔪᓯᒍᓐᓇᖅᓯᒍᒪ.

[Inuktitut text translated as follows:]

Please let me know when I can continue.

[Translation]

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, we are not getting the French interpretation of my colleague's comments.

If there is interpretation this afternoon, it is not working. We should be able to hear it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Ms. Idlout, maybe start from the beginning and we'll reset your time. Hopefully this will work.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᐅᖃᓪᓚᒋᐊᒃᑲᓂᕐᓗᖓ, ᐃᒪᓐᓇᒎᖅ ᐋᖅᑭᑦᓯᒪᓂᐊᕐᒪᑦ, ᐃᓄᑦᑎᑐᑦ ᐅᖃᓪᓚᒃᑎᒡᓗᖓ ᑐᓵᔨᒐ ᖃᓪᓗᓈᑎᑑᓕᖅᑎᒡᓗᓂᐅᒃ ᖃᓪᓗᓈᑎᑑᓕᖅᑎᒃᑳᒐᒥᐅᒃ ᐅᐃᕖᑎᑐᑦ ᐋ, ᐋᖅᑭᑦᓱᖅᑕᐅᓕᕐᓂᐊᖅᓱᓂᒎᖅ, ᑕᐃᒪᓐᓇ ᑐᑭᓯᕗᖓ.

[Inuktitut text translated as follows:]

I will continue speaking. I was told that when I speak in Inuktitut, my interpreter will translate it into English and then the French will follow.

[English]

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

There's no translation, Mr. Clerk.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

We are not hearing the French interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

We're going to pause for a minute.

Mr. Clerk, I believe on our floor mikes, for English it's channel three that's working, the auxiliary channel, but I don't know how that's going to work on Zoom and for French. It should be translating into French.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

If you wish, I will speak now so we can look into this technical issue while I speak.

While I speak, it will be translated into English, then it will be relayed into French. Is that my understanding?

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

I'm going to suspend for a minute to resolve these technical difficulties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

We'll resume.

I believe the technical difficulties have been resolved.

Ms. Idlout.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᐄ, ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ, ᐊᑏ ᐱᒋᐊᑦᓯᐊᑲᓐᓂᕐᓂᐊᖅᐳᒍᑦ, ᓯᕗᕐᓕᕐᒥᑦ ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ, ᒪᓕᒐᓕᐅᕐᕕᕐᔪᐊᖅ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐊᓪᓚᒡᕕᒃ ᖁᔭᓕᒍᒪᕙᕋ, ᐋ, ᐃᓄᒃᑑᒃᓱᖓ ᑲᑎᒪᖃᑕᐅᔪᓐᓇᕋᒪ ᑐᓵᔨᖃᖅᑎᑕᐅᒐᒪ ᑕᒪᓐᓇ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᕋ ᐊᑐᕈᓐᓇᖅ-ᓱᒍ ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᖁᔭᓕᒐᒃᑯ, ᖃᐅᔨᒪᔪᖓ, ᐋ, ᖃᐅᔨᒪᔪᐃᓐᓇᐅᔪᒍ ᑲᓇᑕ ᑐᓐᖓᒻᒪᑦ ᓄᓇᖃᑦᑳᖅᓯᒪᔫ ᓄᓇᖏᓐᓂ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅ-ᑎᒍᑦ ᒪᓕᖃᖅᓯᒪᐃᓐᓇᖅᑐᒍᑦ ᑕᐃᒪᓐᖓᓂᒃ, ᒪᓕᒐᖅᐳᑦ ᒫᓐᓇᒧᑦ ᐊᑐᖅᑕᐅᕙᑦᑐᖅ ᓱᓕ, ᐊᐃᑖᖑᒐᓗᐊᖅ ᑭᓯᐊᓂ ᐃᓕᑕᕆᔭᐅᑦᓯᐊᖅᓯ-ᒪᓐᖏᒻᒪᑕ ᐃᖅᑲᖅᑐᐃᕕᒃᑯᑎᒍᑦ ᐊᑐᖅᐸᒃᑲᓗᐊᖅᑎᒡᓗᒋᑦ ᓱᓕ, ᐊᑐᐃᓐᓇᖅᐸᑦᑕᕗᑦ ᒫᓐᓇᒧᑦ ᐊᑐᖅᑕᕗᑦ ᖁᔭᓕᕗᖓ ᐅᖃᕈᓐᓇᕋᒪ, ᐋ, ᐋᒻ, ᓯᓚᑦᑐᖅᓴᕐᕕᒻᒥᑦ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕆᐊᖅᑎᒡᓗᖓ ᔫᓂᕘᕐᓯᑎ ᐊᑉ ᐋᑐᐋᒥ University of Ottawa ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᓯᕗᓕᖅᑎᐅᒋᓪᓗᒋᑦ ᑕᐃᑲᓂ, ᐋ, ᒪᓕᒐᓕᕆᔨᐅᓂᕐᒥᒃ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᓚᐅᕋᒪ, ᑕᐃᑲᓂ, ᐋ, ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᖁᕕᐊᒋᔭᖃᓚᐅᖅᓱᖓ, ᐋ, ᐃᓕᓴᐃᔨᖃᓚᐅᕋᒪ ᑐᕋᐃᓯ ᓕᖕᐴᕐᒡ Tracy Lingberg ᑖᓐᓇ ᑐᕋᐃᓯ ᓕᖕᐴᕐᒡ ᐃᓕᓴᐃᔨᐅᓚᐅᕐᒪᑦ, ᐋ, ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖏᓐᓂᒃ ᐊᑐᖅᐸᓪᓕᐊᒍᓐᓇᖁᔨᓪᓗᓂ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᐅᐱᒋᓚᐅᕋᒃᑯ, ᓯᕗᓕᖅᑎᐅᒋᖃᑕᐅᒋᓪᓚᕆᒃᐸᕋ, ᐊᒻᒪᑦᑕᐅᖅ ᐅᓪᓛᖑᔪᖅ, ᐋ, ᒥᓂᔅᑐᕐ ᑕᐃᕕᑦ ᓕᒥᑎ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᕆᖅᑲᐅᒐᒃᑭ ᐅᖃᖅᓱᑎᑦ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᖅᑲᖅᑐᐃᕖᑦ, ᐋ, ᐊᒥᓱᓂᒃ, ᐋᒻ, ᒪᓕᒐᓕᕆᔾᔪᑎᓂᒃ ᐊᑐᕆᐊᖃᕐᒪᑕ ᒪᕐᕉᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᖏᑦᑐᖅ ᖃᓪᓗᓈᑎᑐᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᖏᑦᑐᖅ ᐅᐃᕖᑎᑐᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᖏᑦᑐᖅ ᑭᓯᐊᓂ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖅᐳᑦ ᐊᑐᖅᑕᐅᒃᑲᓐᓂᐹᓪᓕᕆᐊᖃᕐᒪᑦ, ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᑖᓐᓇ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᕆᖅᑲᐅᕙᕋ. ᑖᓐᓇ ᐅᐸᓐᔅᒪᐅᐊᓐ ᓂᕈᐊᖅᑕᐅᕙᓪᓕᐊᑎᒡᓗᒍ, ᐋ, ᓴᖅᑮᕙᓪᓕᐊᒍᑕᐅ-ᓂᐊᕐᒪᑦ, ᐋ, ᒪᕐᕈᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᖏᑦᑐᓂᒃ ᒪᓕᒐᕐᓂᖅ ᐊᑐᕆᐊᖃᕐᓂᕐᒥᒃ, ᐊᐱᕆᔪᒪᕗᖓ ᑖᓐᓇ ᓯᕗᒡᓕᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᔾᔮᖏᒃᑲᓗᐊᕐᒪᖓᖅ, ᐋ, ᐊᖅᑭᑦᓱᐃᒃᓯᒪᒃᑲᓂᕐᓂᐊᕐᒪᖓᑦᓯ ᓲᕐᓗ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐊᒥᓱᕐᖑᑲᓐᓂᕆᐊ-ᖃᕋᓗᐊᕐᒪᑕ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᐃᖅᑲᖅᑐᐃᔩᑦ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᖅᑲᖅᑐᐃᔩᑦ ᓂᕈᐊᖅᑕᐅᒐᓱᒋᐊᑦᓴᖅ ᐊᔪᕈᑎᖃᓲᖑᒻᒪᑕ ᐅᐃᕖᑎᑐᑦ ᐅᖃᓪᓚᒍᓐᓇ-ᖏᒃᑳᒐᒥᒃ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᐊᐱᕆᔪᒪᕙᑦᓯ ᖃᓄᖅᑑᑲᓐᓂᕐᓂᐊᖅᐱᓰ, ᐋ, ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᓕᕆᔩᑦ ᐃᓕᑕᕆᔭᐅᒃᑲᓐᓂᖁᓪᓗᒋᑦ ᐃᖅᑲᖅᑐᔨᓐᖑᒐᓱᒋᐊᑦᓴᖅ.

[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

Thank you. Shall we start again?

First of all, I am extremely happy to be here. I thank you for allowing me to be part of this, and that I can speak to you in my own language. I am very grateful for that.

I know, we all know, that Canada is multicultural, but it was also indigenous before there were other arrivals. We've always had our own traditional legal processes and systems. We still use our legal systems today. Sadly, they are no longer recognized in the court system, although we will try to apply traditional knowledge on legal issues within the court system. It should be recognized and promoted.

I am happy that I am able to sit here and say to you that when I went to the University of Ottawa, I took legal studies. I enjoyed my instructor, Tracey Lindberg. She has worked with aboriginal students and has studied aboriginal legal issues and systems, and I learned a lot from her.

Minister David Lametti, this morning, I enjoyed it when you said that the court system has to look at all the legal systems, not only in English or French, but it should also include indigenous legal systems and processes that work.

With Ms. O'Bonsawin now nominated, that is very hopeful and it will help us to introduce a third legal system, which will be indigenous. Whether she's the first person appointed or not, I look forward to the day when we will do more to include indigenous traditional legal systems.

We have many issues whereby we cannot run for many positions. Not being able to speak French is one. Will you look into that as a barrier for us? If more indigenous lawyers are to be involved in policy in government, we need to consider bilingualism in other ways.

[English]

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Nakurmiik, Ms. Idlout. It's good that you are here today on this historic day.

Let me say first of all that under call to action 50 of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, one of the things that I am charged with as Minister of Justice is to encourage the revitalization of indigenous legal systems, and there are many. There are hundreds of different kinds of legal systems, all of the Inuit, Métis and first nations legal systems, so there are a number of different projects that I am supporting to help revitalize those traditions. They are being led by indigenous leaders, elders, and I'm going to say “lawyers” in quotation marks, because they're indigenous experts in their own normative systems.

Those projects are being led, and I'm supportive of that. I think that in and of itself will help on the day-to-day revitalization of self-government and self-determination. It will also have an impact on the common law and the civil law and the structures that exist in the Canadian legal system. There will be a better appreciation simply because of that.

The question of bilingualism is an important one. To Canada it's very important, and it is important on the Supreme Court that we have bilingualism as a criterion. I think Justice O'Bonsawin has proven today, and there are others in the system I know of, that as an apex court, the top court in Canada, you have a whole career to prepare for it. Bilingualism as a criterion for that court I firmly believe shouldn't stand in the way of good indigenous and non-indigenous candidates.

Other courts don't require that each and every judge be bilingual. There are unilingual anglophones and francophones on various courts across Canada. It is an obligation for a whole court to be able to offer services in both French and English, but that will often mean sending a francophone judge to northern Ontario or an anglophone judge to a part of New Brunswick or Quebec, as the case may be. That requirement of institutional bilingualism isn't an impediment either, so—

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

If I may interrupt you—

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Please do.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

—I think there was a misunderstanding about my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Ms. Idlout, we're out of time on this round. Hopefully you'll be able to be in the subsequent round.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

My question wasn't interpreted properly, and he ended up giving a different kind of response.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.