Justice Committee on Aug. 24th, 2022

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I first want to clarify that I did not consult the Liberalist. I went to the Elections Canada website, which is in the public domain and where people's contributions are made public.

A small amount of donations, particularly in terms of dollars, were made to the Liberal Party in 2011 and 2012 by the candidate. Neither I nor the board knew that. We did not consider that during the selection process.

Honestly, it wasn't until yesterday when I saw your name on the list of participants that I knew I should have the answer to this question.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I am wondering what kind of a reputation I am getting.

If I understand correctly, Ms. O'Bonsawin's name is not on the list of volunteers for the Liberal Party.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I did not look at the list of volunteers during the process. So I don't have an answer to that question.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You don't know.

Is that right?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

As I said, I consulted the Elections Canada website.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I will change the subject.

Earlier, my NDP colleague Ms. Idlout asked you a question about bilingualism. I saw that she was concerned about the fact that some indigenous candidates do not speak French. Yet we know that, in Canada, bilingualism is based on French and English. I understand her concern.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this issue.

Is it still necessary to speak English and French to hold a seat on the highest court in the country or do you think that French could give way to an indigenous language?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

As you know, I clerked for Justice Cory at the Supreme Court in 1989 and 1990.

I have also been involved in writing Supreme Court briefs and arguments. I know that every word is chosen with great care, in French and in English. In my opinion, it is very important that a Supreme Court justice be able to understand the spoken or written language without translation. So I think—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'm sorry for being impolite by cutting you off, but I have only two and a half minutes.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

—that it is essential.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

It is essential.

My colleague put a question to you earlier, but I'm not sure you understood it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Monsieur Fortin. We're over time now.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I am not sure you have understood mine either.

Will French give way to an indigenous language?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

No. It is essential.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Next we'll go again to Madam Idlout, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much. I will be speaking in English and hope my intervention can be interpreted into Inuktitut.

As I was saying, Canada is founded on indigenous lands, the lands of the first nations, Métis and Inuit, who had their own lives before colonialism. Justice O'Bonsawin's appointment really opens up the opportunity for a pluralistic legal system to be established and recognized.

I'm wondering if you could respond to this question. What next steps can be taken to ensure that this is not a one-time appointment of an indigenous judge so we can make sure there's actual reconciliation with indigenous peoples, whose lands have been stolen in Canada and whose lives need to be revitalized, as you've said?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Qujannamiik, Ms. Idlout, for the question. I apologize if I mischaracterized or misunderstood your previous question. I truly apologize.

The idea of reconciliation through the justice system has to happen at many levels. First of all, with respect to the current legal system of superior courts, provincial courts, territorial courts, courts of appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada, we need to continue to appoint diverse people, including indigenous people. I have done this since I was named minister in 2019. I have done a great deal of outreach to try to encourage candidates to apply and to help candidates understand that they have something to bring to the bench. It's very important that their experiences be brought to the bench. In a way, that makes interpretation of the common law and the civil law much more diverse and much more pluralistic in and of itself.

I'm proud of the diversity in our appointments. I'm also proud of the fact that there are a number of very good indigenous jurists who are now sitting on superior courts and courts of appeal. As we say in French, la relève is strong. I think this will continue to improve, and an appointment such as today's will help to inspire others and build confidence so they will apply, whether it's for an elevation to a court of appeal or possibly the Supreme Court, or whether it's to a superior court or a provincial or territorial court to begin with. I think all of that is good and important. It's hard work. It is incremental. It's hard to see the progress and sometimes I get very frustrated, but it is moving in the right direction.

Also, as I mentioned, we have an obligation, and I have an obligation as minister, to help revitalize indigenous normative systems, legal systems. They have always been there and have always played a role, particularly in the day to day. It is important to recognize that but also to support it. It goes along with the revitalization of indigenous languages and the protection of indigenous languages, because the two often go hand in hand. I will continue to look for ways to do that, but there I'm really following the leadership of indigenous nations, people and experts in terms of how we make that happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Madam Idlout.

Next we'll go to Ms. Findlay.

Thank you, Ms. Findlay, for joining us today. You have five minutes.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Minister Lametti and to Chairperson MacLauchlan.

I'm following up on the questions of my colleague, Mr. Fortin, and other colleagues. I would like to ask each of you to confirm whether you or anyone on your behalf or part of your committee consulted, not just Liberalist, but anything as to the political affiliations of the candidates you vetted.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I can confirm that I did not and nobody did on my behalf until, as I said, I anticipated the question of Mr. Fortin today.

[H. Wade MacLauchlan]

The committee absolutely did not. No.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

I think a lot of us in the legal profession have a great deal of respect for Justice Moldaver and are sorry to see him go. He was both learned and congenial in the way he approached his important position. It has been mentioned before that he was a leading specialist in criminal law, and although mental health absolutely is an aspect of criminal law, my understanding is that criminal cases constituted 55% of the cases that the Supreme Court of Canada heard in 2021.

Given the importance of criminal law in the court, I'm interested, Minister Lametti, on how this gap of knowledge and skill set with Justice Moldaver's retirement was taken into consideration in appointing a nominee.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you.

I believe that Mr. MacLauchlan will answer that directly in a moment, but it certainly was something raised by the chief justice in his consultation with Mr. MacLauchlan and the committee.

What I can say is what I said before. I understand the percentage of the court's docket that is criminal law, and I understand how important that is. I certainly understand, as Minister of Justice, the precedential value of those decisions that come from the Supreme Court. You've seen that in recent weeks and months when we were sitting.

As I've said before, there is other latent expertise on the bench to begin with. There are other justices who have experience in criminal law as well as their accumulated experience as judges at the superior court, the court of appeal and now Supreme Court levels. Justice O'Bonsawin brings that with her as a former sitting superior court judge, but also with an expertise in dimensions of criminal law that are increasingly important.

I'm confident that she will add to the criminal law capabilities of the court, and I'm confident generally in the criminal law capabilities of the court.

[H. Wade MacLauchlan]

Let me accept the point of the question insofar as it recognizes the very significant contributions over time of Justice Michael Moldaver at the Supreme Court of Canada, as well as in his earlier judicial appointments, which go back to 1990. Justice Moldaver has been a leader in the criminal law field, including in the professional education—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

With respect, Mr. Chair, we only have so much time. We don't need to go over the past justice's credentials. I've already acknowledged—