Justice Committee on Oct. 6th, 2022

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

Of course we encourage everyone to add names to this list. It's a long list. It's not just IRGC commanders. As I said, there are a lot of people in Iran who commit murders and are a part of this repression in Iran. All of those names should be on the list.

It is a big concern for the Iranian people that Canada has become a safe haven for the criminals of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The deputy president of Iran's son lives in Vancouver right now. They're living lavish lives while my wife, my daughter and some of the victims are buried in this country. This is not acceptable to the Iranian people. This is not acceptable to the Iranian-Canadian community, and I'm sure this is not acceptable to Canadians.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have 30 seconds left, so if you don't have time to answer this question verbally, maybe you can send a follow-up to the committee.

I hear from so many different diaspora communities in Canada—perhaps foremost among them the Iranian community—this concern about foreign-state-backed intimidation and violence. I think many Canadians are deeply unaware of how big a problem this is and how threats to family members and individuals here are used to silence people who want to speak out against violence happening in their country of origin.

Could you make some suggestions about how to support those victims of crime?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

Let's not let operatives of the Islamic Republic of Iran come to this country. I think that's the first step.

Also, it's not only this country; they're everywhere. They are in the media. We see that there are some institutions in this country that have been sponsored by the government, and we can see that there are ties with the Islamic Republic of Iran within those institutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Next we have Madam Diab for five minutes.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Esmaeilion, thank you for being here today, and thank you for being the voice of the families of the flight PS752 victims.

We are studying victims' rights, and normally it's not as intense as it was this afternoon.

I still remember the shock and pain we felt in my community of Halifax in January when the news reached us. A community memorial was held by the Al Rasoul Islamic Society in Bedford, in my area, but I also joined, on behalf of the Government of Nova Scotia at the time, friends and families of victims, alongside nearly a thousand people, at a community vigil at Dalhousie University that was held by the Dalhousie Iranian Students Society, in partnership with the Iranian Cultural Society of Nova Scotia.

A number of the victims had ties to Nova Scotia, and I want to read their names because it is important that we remember these victims: Dalhousie engineering student Masoumeh Ghavi, known as Masi; Masoumeh's younger sister, Mahdieh Ghavi; a local dentist, Dr. Sharieh Faghihi, whose children came to the memorial and spoke; Saint Mary’s University students Fatemeh Mahmoodi and Maryam Malek; and a former Halifax resident, Dr. Shekoufeh Choupannejad, and her daughters, Sara and Saba Saadat. We remember them.

At the time, the universities held scholarships in their honour for the students and the family of the dentist. It was hard to describe the scale of the loss at the time, and quite frankly it still is.

On Saturday, I marched with the Iranian community and others in Halifax to protest and to be the voice of the women and girls who are being killed in Iran, but also of their families and everybody who is grieving.

Can you speak a bit about your wife and daughter?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

Thank you very much.

Yes, it was Masoumeh and her little sister, Mahdieh. I just wanted to say their names, because I know that for their mom it is very important to hear their names.

My wife was 42 and a dentist. We married when we were in university 22 years ago. My daughter was nine years, seven months and 16 days old when this happened. We were a happy family here in Canada. We moved up here in 2010; we passed all the exams.

My wife and I grew up together and were the best of friends, so I think it's our everyday job to do advocacy for them, and it's not only me. It's all the family members. I'm not alone. I'm here on behalf of the association, but we have a big team supporting me, and I'm sure they're listening to this testimony. They want to see some action for truth and justice. That's the the most important thing for our families.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Doctor.

What would you say to the countries around the world that were not directly touched by this particular tragedy and are reluctant and don't want to do anything? Again, I don't know all the intricacies. I'm a newer member of Parliament. It's been a year and it's not something I've studied here, but I do understand that there are things that need to be done outside of Canada.

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

We haven't seen much from the politicians in the free world.

I think one of the first steps is to cut ties with the Islamic Republic of Iran as a punishment. What we hear from the government here, too, when they say to put sanctions on these individuals is that sanctions are for changing behaviour, not for punishment. However, this mindset is wrong. Sometimes sanctions are for punishment, and cutting ties with the Islamic Republic of Iran is for punishment.

If you show them you're serious, then they don't act like this to the Iranian people. When you close your eyes and sit at the negotiation table with the Islamic Republic of Iran and forget about PS752, Bloody November, the green movement and the 1988 massacres—all of those crimes—it shows that you are not serious and you are not supporting the Iranian people.

People are important for us. People should understand that the ones running that country are not in a normal government. It's a mafia gang.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Ms. Diab.

Lastly, we have Monsieur Fortin for two and a half minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Esmaeilion, I feel like I've covered the broad outlines of your demands. I share them. I think everyone around the table shares your pain. You mentioned your wife and daughter, which is obviously very sad. I understand your request that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps be added to the list of criminal organizations. On the other hand, I understand the minister's hesitation, as he does not want innocent people to suffer significant inconvenience if this organization is listed. That said, I also understand that you have consulted, as you told us earlier, lawyers specializing in the field who explained to you that it was possible to add the organization to the list while protecting individuals who would otherwise be affected by this addition to the list.

I'd like you to tell me more about this. What provisions should be made to prevent further innocent victims being targeted by adding the organization to the list?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

If the lawyers of Global Affairs want to have a meeting with our lawyers, we'd welcome that. This is what we have suggested from the beginning, not only because of the IRGC but for the road map to justice. There have been a few meetings in the past, but usually they're not open to giving any information.

We offered them a solution and we can help. We can help provide the list. We can help on the case, but as far as I know, they want to act independently. The legal representatives of the victims have no role in making decisions.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you.

In practical terms, how does this protect these innocent victims? Do you have this information? What do your lawyers suggest?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

You know that I'm not a lawyer, so a legal adviser is probably better for answering that question. What I do know is that everybody who passes military service in Iran has a card. That card shows that you have been in the IRGC involuntarily. It shows everybody that you were not part of the organization; you just had to pass those two years. I think that would lead to an easy solution.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Esmaeilion. I offer you my condolences, once again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

Dr. Esmaeilion, I want to thank you for your testimony. You've obviously been through a very horrific situation—you and all the families of PS752. We thank you for coming and sharing. Hopefully some of the advice you've given us will be taken back and addressed in a timely manner.

That concludes the testimony for the study. We have a bit of committee business.

Mr. Esmaeilion, you are dismissed. You are more than welcome to stay there if you want.

Very quickly, we have the budget for this study to pass. I think you all have it. Are you all okay with it?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would need some information.

With respect to adding additional expenses, my understanding is that we were talking about two witnesses who came from Vancouver for $2,000. I am not sure what is included in that amount.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Jean-François Lafleur]

Mr. Fortin, it's airfare and an overnight hotel stay in Ottawa for new witnesses. Essentially, that's what's in the supplementary budget.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That's airfare and hotel for one night, right.

In the case of Calgary, I understand it's a little bit less. I guess the plane was cheaper. Is that correct?

[The Clerk]

Exactly.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

It was $1,750 per witness rather than $2,000 for those from Vancouver.

[The Clerk]

Yes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

There really is a $250 difference.

I've been to Vancouver a few times and from memory the plane cost me about $700, sometimes less, sometimes a bit more. My prices may not be up to date. I just wanted to understand what it was all about. I'm fine with that.

[The Clerk]

We add up the ticket prices we find and average them out. We don't want to run a deficit.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I understand that this is a budget, not an expense. Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.