Justice Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Elene Lam]

For many sex workers, saying that sex workers do not have the brains to make decisions about their life is also violence. It is taking away their agency and not respecting what they want in their lives. For example, in Toronto, when the City of Toronto wanted to shut down massage parlours, 200 workers went to city hall to say that this was their work and they were not trafficking victims. They are not brainwashed, but unfortunately, because they're racialized and are sex workers, their voices are not being heard.

It is the same with this committee. We have seen so many sex workers come to you and directly tell you how this law is harmful and they don't want this law, but we still do not listen and we keep thinking this will be good for them. The assumption that sex workers are ignorant, naive, have no brains to make decisions about their lives, don't know what they're doing or are being lured is something that really violates their rights.

In addition to working with Asian and migrant sex workers in Canada, I also have long-term experience working with youth sex workers. The approach is also affecting how sex workers.... No matter what age, criminalization is not the solution, so when we talk about how some people may not have agency, we also need to question ourselves and ask whether we impose a lot of assumptions on other people rather than really listening to the community.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Ms. Lam, thank you very much for the work you do with sex workers and for your very valuable testimony here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison.

Mr. Moore, we have about five minutes. Do you want to split it into two and a half and two and a half? If it's the will of the committee, we can carry over by three or four minutes, if that's okay.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

I'm fine to split.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Okay. Go ahead, then, for two and a half minutes, Mr. Moore.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of our witnesses for their appearance today. I think this is very helpful for us in this study.

Ms. Kent, I appreciate the work you are doing in your collective. We're hearing a lot about Bill C-36, and I note that you raised the issue of survivors and said that listening to people who have had dealings in this industry would be advantageous for us.

From their feedback, what do you think would happen if Bill C-36 was completely repealed, meaning we have no criminalization whatsoever in this area?

[Lynne Kent]

Well, we all acknowledge, and we've heard from many here, that we have significant exploitation happening. In fact, the multiple studies tell us that those with agency in this business are between 2% and 10%. The rest have no agency. Then is the answer to that to throw out the law and have no law at all? What would happen if we were to do that?

We don't have to look very far to see what would happen. Overnight, Canada would become the brothel of North America—there is no question about that—and we would be the best sex tourism destination for the world. We know right now that Kelowna, in our province, is very much seen as a great sex tourism destination.

Yes, there are pros and cons about Sweden, but if we compare Sweden, which brought in the Nordic model at the same time that Germany decriminalized, wow, there's no comparison in the exploitation of women. Germany now has more than 400,000 women being prostituted, and the harms are out of sight. The stories are unimaginable in terms of the ways in which these women are treated.

Sweden hasn't eliminated sex work, and that's really not the intent. The intent is to make it safe. When you decriminalize the exploiters, how do you really think that will make it safe or safer?

This is—

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Ms. Kent. I'm sorry. We just ran out of time.

Lastly, we have Mr. Miao for two and a half minutes.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair; and thank you for the opportunity to be here today, substituting for Yasir Naqvi.

I'll address this question to Ms. Lam with regard to the benefit of decriminalization or legalization of sex workers. Coming from an Asian background, I understand there's a lot of stigma behind this. Would you mind sharing that?

[Elene Lam]

I think decriminalization, one, is very helpful to not make people think sex workers are something wrong or to not think they are evil. This is very helpful to eliminate the hate against sex workers and to promote respect for the sex worker.

The other piece, as we keep saying, is that the criminal law itself is creating the vulnerability of sex workers, which makes them become the target of violence. Particularly we see how anti-Asian hate can intersect with anti-sex work hate and make so many sex workers the targets of assault or murder.

By decriminalization, by taking away this criminal law so the sex worker can use all of this—and even now the legal system is not perfect—they can access those legal systems or support as other people can. As recommended by many sex worker organizations and by some legal and human rights organizations, providing social support is very important to reduce the vulnerability, exploitation and violence towards the sex worker.

Taking away this criminal law, the sex worker does not have to fear when they need to access those systems. It also plays an important role in removing the stigma, and that is a very important step.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you.

I thank the witnesses, Ms. Kent and Ms. Lam, for coming out today. It's very gracious of you, and your testimony has been very informative.

I will adjourn the meeting and see all the other members on Friday.

Thank you.