Justice Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Minister, I can only tell you that I can speak for my constituents and the resounding, unabated communications I've had from them are a “no” to this question.

I ask that you do take that back to your people and into your consideration.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I take that very seriously. Thank you.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

Moving forward, you said in your opening statement that you are dealing most with suiting our justice system to those most affected.

Some of those who are most affected, in my view, are victims and victims of sexual offences. I haven't seen anything from the Liberal government here that has addressed sexual offences. I don't know of any bill.

Do you know of any bill that has addressed sexual offences here in the last few years?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Well, there's Bill C-75 to a large extent, in terms of sexual offences in the area of conjugal violence and even changing the pleading balances.

We've also invested a great deal, Mr. Caputo, in services for victims of sexual assault and sexual violence. We've been investing in the kinds of organizations that help those victims on the ground. We're doing a great deal of that. We use the victims fund precisely to do that.

I can come back to you with the actual investments we've made. I have said them publicly before. There have been a great deal.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

My wife works in this area, so I know a little bit about it.

My point is this: At this point, robbery, which is the taking of property by force, is treated more seriously from a sentencing perspective than sexual assault. One has a sentence of life imprisonment and the other has a 10-year maximum sentence. One of these offences is taking away sexual dignity and inviolability.

Will you commit here and now to addressing that imbalance where we treat the taking of property more seriously than the sexual assault of children and adults? Will you commit here today to addressing that?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I'm committed to improving the criminal justice system. This is an area that has been identified. You and others have identified it as a way to move forward.

I've committed to studying your private member's bill, and we have made a great number of investments, as I've just said, in order to help victims. Bill C-75 was also a step forward. I think you would agree in that regard. I'll continue to work in good faith with you and with others to address these kinds of questions in our criminal justice system.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Caputo.

We'll go to Madame Brière for four minutes. [Inaudible—Editor] four-minute round here.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Minister.

There is a lot of talk about Bill C-5. We know that the opioid and overdose crisis is complex. It's important to have a diverse approach in order to respond well. I think Bill C‑5 does just that.

Supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23, provide $3.5 million to support new detox programs that are supervised by drug treatment courts in Canada and to expand existing programs. Funding is also provided for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Can you provide us with a little more detail on these new programs?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Yes, I'd be happy to. Thank you for your question, dear colleague.

These are programs that work very well and that support people who help the victims and society in general. We are working on this matter with the provinces, including Quebec, which is an excellent example. In fact, specialized drug courts are currently active there or are in the process of being set up.

it's the provinces that administer justice and health in their jurisdictions. My mandate letter is designed to support the provinces' efforts with funding, which we are doing. We also support other programs and organizations.

The money for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions is used for training and to increase its flexibility, because part of Bill C‑5 is diversion. Their staff had already begun the process, and we have framed it with Bill C‑5. We therefore support it so that it goes in the right direction.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Could you tell us a little bit about the steps involved in implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act and how that legislation can advance the implementation of the declaration?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you for that very important question.

This takes a lot of my time. Working with indigenous leaders across Canada, we are developing an action plan to implement the declaration. We would like a draft of this action plan to be made public in early 2023, since the deadline for submitting the plan is June 2023. So we are working hard.

This deadline was suggested by indigenous leaders two years ago. Making the draft plan public will help focus the comments and suggestions that will come from it, and frame the discussions that will follow. We are moving forward and working hard. This is a very serious issue for all of us, but especially for indigenous peoples. We hope to have an action plan in place next June.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Ms. Brière.

Next we'll go for two two-minute rounds, beginning with Mr. Villemure for the Bloc.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, you made my mouth water earlier when you talked about diversity and quality in the criteria for appointing judges.

On the one hand, I would like you to reassure me that when we talk about diversity, we don't want to reduce it to diversity of identity or community. Tell me that diversity is broader than that.

On the other hand, given the changes in society, have you considered appointing ethicists, demographers or sociologists, people from the social sciences and humanities, as members of these advisory committees, in order to round out the perspective and help understand the changing world?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

In each case, we select seven or eight people. We get input from a number of people across Canada, and I think it works very well, and transparently. We've already made more than 570 appointments across the country since 2016, and I'm proud of the quality and diversity of the people we've appointed.

The chief justices of the superior courts are also very pleased with the quality and diversity of these individuals. Last Thursday, I was at the swearing-in ceremony in Montreal of the new Chief Justice of the Superior Court of Quebec. The positive feedback on the appointments we've made in Quebec has been remarkable, so I am very pleased and very proud.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In a few seconds, could you tell us whether there is some diversity of perspectives among the people who conduct the selection process or whether they are only among legal experts?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

The vast majority of them, of course, are legal experts. However, the people we have appointed to these committees have different perspectives.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Monsieur Villemure.

Now we'll go to Mr. Garrison for two minutes. I see that he's back.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here today.

I know you're well aware that we're in the midst of the international campaign of 16 days of activism against gender-based violence. That began on November 25 with the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. It encompasses tomorrow, which is our own National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women, when we're called upon to remember the mass shooting at Polytechnique Montréal.

Mr. Minister, twice, the justice committee has unanimously recommended that the government bring forward legislation to make coercive and controlling behaviour in intimate partner relationships a criminal offence. Two years ago, I introduced a bill to do so, which would recognize that coercive and controlling behaviour is a form a violence, and allow victims to get assistance from the legal system at an earlier point, before there's physical violence.

Frankly, Mr. Minister, your government's response on this has been disappointing. My question is very direct. Let me ask you this.

Can we expect such legislation in this Parliament?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison, for all of your work on this. I'm aware of not only your work but also the work that the two committees have done.

I have committed to you personally and publicly that I would work on this with you, and I will do that.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison.

That concludes our rounds of questions on the supplementary estimates.

I apologize, ladies and gentlemen. I thought I might have needed more time. That's why I originally ended the rounds earlier, but it looks like we were pretty efficient.

I will go to the votes.

I will need the clerk's assistance on this, as best as he can, because I can't see you guys there.

CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION Vote 1b—Program expenditures..........898,286

(Vote 1b agreed to)

Before I go to the next one, I want to thank Minister Lametti and all of the experts who came and appeared today.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate your commitment to ensuring that we get all of the information on supplementary budgets.

COURTS ADMINISTRATION SERVICE Vote 1b—Program expenditures..........4,014,074

(Vote 1b agreed to on division)

I now call on vote 1b under the Department of Justice.

Is there any discussion on this vote?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Yes, Mr. Chair.