Justice Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I thank Mr. Garrison for his comments. We hear about the abuse that takes place with the children who are involved in this, but there's also the mental trauma that the investigators go through as well. They have to witness all of this material, sometimes multiple times, as they go through it. Those enforcement personnel and court personnel who are involved in trying these cases certainly need our recognition as well. So, support for enforcement, support for survivors—I'm sure Mr. Caputo will agree with me—are key components as we move forward and strengthen our Canadian laws.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

I actually echo that. I still recall being a young articling student when I had to review that for a defence firm, and it was quite traumatic. It's not easy to go through those. I can only imagine law enforcement...who have to deal with this on a daily basis and go through voluminous material that is very horrific, and the amount of stress and post-traumatic stress that might appear.

Thank you once again for your great round of questioning, though it be short.

In the interest of time, I'd like to provide the members of the committee with some instructions and a few comments before the committee proceeds with the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-291.

As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively, and each clause is subject to debate and a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing it, who may explain it. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on. Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the bill and in the package that each member received from the clerk. Members should note that amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk of the committee.

The chair will go slowly to allow members to follow the proceedings properly.

Amendments have been given an alphanumeric number in the top right corner to indicate which party submitted them. There's no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once again, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it.

During the debate of an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. These amendments must be submitted in writing. They do not require the approval of the mover of the amendment. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time, and that subamendment cannot be amended. When a subamendment is moved to the amendment, it is voted on first, then another subamendment may be moved, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on it.

Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will vote on the short title, the title and the bill itself, and if amendments are adopted, an order to reprint the bill may be required so the House has a proper copy for use at report stage. Finally, the committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House. That report contains only the text of any adopted amendments as well as an indication of any deleted clauses.

Just so you know, I'll be looking down at my phone, but it's not to do text messaging. I'm checking in case my clerk or the legislative clerks have given me any messages.

Now we'll begin the clause-by-clause consideration.

(On clause 1)

Amendment G-1 has been proposed.

Is there any debate?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may speak to the amendments from G-1 to G-12, they all essentially relate to one specific intent, which is to add the term "and exploitation" after the term "child sexual abuse” material. It should read, "child sexual abuse and exploitation material".

This relates to amendments G-1 to G-12. It will be the same comment for each. It's to more adequately reflect the exploitative nature of the issue. I think it better suits the intent that's reflected here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments or debate?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Chair, maybe we could ask the departmental witnesses if they could expand on what the rationale would be or what would be captured under this expression that wouldn't be captured under the existing one proposed in the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

We'll go over to the panellists.

[Phaedra Glushek, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice]

The term as proposed by the private member's bill would only include child abuse materials. As drafted, the bill would only include part of the definition under section 163.1 of the Criminal Code and the offences.

The definition currently captures two types of materials. Here, I'll ask my colleague to step in if I miss anything.

First is abuse to a child. Second is any materials that are child exploitative in nature. It doesn't have to be real; it could be fictional.

The addition of “exploitation” would ensure that the term encapsulates both materials that are defined in the definition that are already in the definition. It's not a substantive change. It would be a change in the term only to reflect what is already captured in the definition.

I'll ask my colleague Ms. Peres if she wants to add anything.

[Belinda Peres, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice]

That's fine. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

If see no further debate; I'll try to go quickly.

Is there anyone else? I don't see any other hands.

Shall G-1 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 1 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-2 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 2 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-3 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 3 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-4 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 4 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-5 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 5 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-6 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 6 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-7 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 7 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-8 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 8 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-9 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 9 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-10 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 10 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-11 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 11 as amended agreed to)

Shall G-12 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 12 as amended agreed to)

Now, we have a new clause 13. It's amendment G-13.

Is there any discussion on that clause?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Mr. Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

With respect to the addition of the new clause, it's fairly self-explanatory. It basically says that the going-into-force of this amendment shall be one year from the passage of this bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you.

Shall G-13 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Is there any discussion on G-14? No.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now, we're going to the title with G-15.

I think it, again, reflects what was amended in government amendments 1 to 12.

Shall G-15 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Shall the title, as amended, carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Shall the bill, as amended, carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Shall the chair report the bill, as amended, to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Shall the committee order a reprint of the bill, as amended, for the use of the House at the report stage?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you.

Congratulations to Mr. Arnold and Mr. Caputo for successful implementation of this bill.

That concludes our meeting. The witnesses are dismissed and so is the committee.

I'll consider this meeting adjourned.