Justice Committee on May 31st, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 68 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Pursuant to the order of reference of March 27, 2023, the committee is meeting to continue its study of Bill C-41, an act to amend the Criminal Code and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. Since it's all members and we have no witnesses who are unfamiliar with the Zoom application, I will skip those instructions.

On our agenda today, we will continue our clause-by-clause study of Bill C-41.

We have officials with us again to provide answers on technical questions throughout our study today. We thank you for making yourselves available to help us once more.

From the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, we have Teresa Matias, who is acting director general, policy and outreach, Afghanistan sector.

We also have, from the Department of Global Affairs, Nancy Segal. Thank you for coming and joining us.

From the Department of Justice, we have Robert Brookfield, director general and senior general counsel, criminal law policy. Thank you.

We also have Glenn Gilmour, counsel, criminal law policy section.

Last, from the Department of Public Safety, we have Richard Bilodeau, director general.

Welcome to all of you. Let's return to where we were before adjourning meeting 61.

(On clause 1)

We're resuming consideration of clause, 1 on amendment CPC-1.

Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Before we move on to CPC-1, I've had conversations with members about NDP-3. For the wording that used, it's been brought to my attention that using the term “international humanitarian law” means that the clause can be used only in instances of armed conflict. That wasn't our intent. We wanted a humanitarian crisis to qualify.

This is supported by some of the aid organizations I've spoken to. The suggestion is that we remove the word “humanitarian”, so it would read “international law”.

I know we need unanimous consent to move back to that amendment to make that change, Chair. I think that if you seek it, you will find it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Do we have unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

We're going back to NDP-3.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Didn't we already do it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

There's unanimous consent to do it. We agree on changing the words.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

The change is to remove the word “humanitarian”.

(Subamendment agreed to)

(Amendment as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Now we'll go back to CPC-1. I think it was Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Following some discussion among parties, we'd like to seek unanimous consent to withdraw this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Do I have unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

(Amendment withdrawn [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Ms. McPherson has her hand up. I don't know if she was objecting to the UC or....

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Ms. McPherson, are you giving unanimous consent?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I just wanted to make sure we're doing it in order. I thought we had moved on without actually passing NDP-3 with the amended language.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

NDP-3 has been amended, and it's done.

We've removed CPC-1. Now we go on to NDP-4.

The text of NDP-4 and that of NDP-5 are the same except for the use of the term “terrorist group” in the first amendment and of “a listed entity” in the second amendment. In addition, the text of NDP-4 is identical to the text of part (a) of BQ-1.

Shall NDP-4 carry?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I could speak to it, if you'd like. I'd like to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

I'm sorry, Ms. McPherson. I'm a bit rusty today.

Go ahead.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I also am a bit rusty, so forgive me if I miss things.

We're bringing forward NDP-4. The purpose is to introduce a list of geographic areas. This was something that we—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

There's a problem with interpretation. There seems to be feedback when Ms. McPherson speaks, unfortunately. I really hope this gets resolved fairly quickly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

I'm not getting anything either.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Do we have anyone with a microphone on that needs to be turned off?

Mr. Chair, shall I try again?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm passing on the interpreter's message, requesting that the microphones in the room be turned off when Ms. McPherson or any online participant speaks. This will make the interpreters' work easier.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Ms. McPherson, we'll have you start again.