Evidence of meeting #78 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
October 19th, 2023 / 4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I think there's some confusion, so I'd like to clear things up.
Mr. Fortin, proposed a subamendment to PV‑9. He's right, and I agree with him, but the amendment will probably be defeated anyways, so I don't think we should waste time on it.
The government submitted a new amendment that covers the same things as PV‑9 and NDP‑1, and it would fix the problem Mr. Fortin raised. The French version is right.
Does that clear things up?
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
It does. I haven't seen the amendment, but if it fixes the problem, that's good.
Again, I'll just say that I don't disagree with the substance of the amendment. I agree with that. I just want to make sure that it's drafted properly.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Allow me, then, as the chair, to ask if PV-9 shall carry.
(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
I have a new NDP-1. Does the member want to move it?
No. That one is gone.
I have amendment G-2.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
There is the new amendment being proposed in lieu of NDP-1, which is—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Very well. In that case, you need to raise your hand, Mr. Fortin.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Yes, I know, Madam Chair, but we're moving so quickly. I'm trying to keep up. I'm looking for the motions that were apparently sent out earlier. They aren't motions, actually, but regardless. I don't want to waste the committee's time.
Once again, I have to point out a lack of clarity in the wording of G‑2, which also appears in G‑4. Respectfully, G‑2 and G‑4 have the same problem, in my view. I realize the amendment pertains to the English version, but whether it's in English or French, the provision will be used by the courts to interpret the law.
The wording proposed in the amendment, “who is the subject of the order” does not take into account the fact that it is not the victim who is the subject of the publication ban. Rather, it is the victim's identity. Saying “who is the subject of the order” makes it seem as though the order applies only to the victim. The victim would be ordered not to disclose x or y, but it would not apply to, say, journalists, the public, court clerks or other lawyers in the courtroom. That's not what we want. The publication ban applies to everyone. Everyone is the subject of the order, but the order protects the beneficiary, as opposed to the subject. It's understood that the victim is the beneficiary of the order.
Here's what I propose to make it more clear. Instead of saying “who is the subject”, we could say “whose identity is the subject of the order”.
If the government members agree, it could be a subamendment.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
No. I can't vote in favour of it because the wording is a problem.
No matter, I don't want to waste the committee's time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Does it carry on division?
(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Thank you.
On amendment G-3, can I ask...?
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
We have a new G-3.1, but we're going to ask that it be read, because it was a submitted new.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Sorry; is this different from the one that was distributed by email?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
No, but there's a bit of confusion as to how they distributed it, so if you don't mind.... Is it a long one?
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Madam Chair, I didn't get the amendment. I looked all over, but I cannot find G‑3.1. If it did go out, I don't know where or when.
Liberal
The Clerk
Mr. Fortin, an email went out at 4:16 p.m. containing four motions to amend. The amendment doesn't appear as G‑3.1. The mover would need to read the reference number in the top-left corner. It's a series of numbers. That should help you find the right one.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
We get a tremendous number of emails every day. It's hard to do our job if amendments aren't properly identified. We are moving fast. I realize we are in a rush, and I have no intention of delaying the committee's work, but I do think we need to do things properly.