Evidence of meeting #78 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
PV-3, on page 6 of your package, is deemed moved.
Madam May, I see that you're there, but you weren't tested.
3:55 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
I had trouble getting connected to you today.
Do you want to test my microphone now?
October 19th, 2023 / 3:55 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Jean-François Lafleur
Yes, Madam May, please go ahead.
3:55 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
I'm just trying to see if I'm on screen or....
Let's see whether it works when I speak French.
I'm sorry I missed the chance to comment on the amendments that have already been defeated, but I'm here now.
It's working.
Should I proceed at this point, Madam Chair?
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Yes, I'd like to make it clear, Madam Chair, that I'm only here before the justice committee because.... I am getting feedback. It is unpleasant. Can someone fix it at your end?
I'm only here because your committee, all of you members here today, passed a motion through which I am required to show up with my amendments to committee rather than being able to exercise the rights I would ordinarily and otherwise have at report stage before the House as a whole. I'd just like to put it on the record every time that I'm put through this process. It's not my choice or my desire.
I now have, under the terms of your motion, the right to speak to my amendments. This amendment, again—
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Ms. May, I need to let you know what I've been told.
You're signed on three times in three different names on the screen. That could perhaps be why we're having difficulties. They are instructing me to tell you to please sign off all three of them.
3:55 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
I will, as long as I won't lose my rights to speak to this amendment, as I lost my rights to earlier ones due to technical problems.
I'll leave and come back, Madam Chair, or hopefully when I leave one, I'll come in on the other.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
You've left one of them, so that's a good sign.
Ms. May, I'm going to suspend for five minutes. I think it's only fair. Beyond that, there's not much else I can do.
3:55 p.m.
Green
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
The meeting is called to order again.
It's been exactly five minutes, and we will proceed.
Ms. May, you have the floor to speak on PV-3, please.
4 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair, and again I offer my apologies for the technical difficulties.
I am of course bringing forward amendments today based on testimony the committee has heard. I know that my friend from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke has spoken on the floor of the House as well of the extraordinary work of the group My Voice, My Choice. This amendment comes from their testimony and their evidence before this committee.
Madam Chair, we haven't been on the same committee together before, so just to explain “PV” for people, this was an old designation chosen by the House because, of course, “Green Party” would be G-3, and then it would look like a government amendment, so it became “Parti Vert”, which leads to PV-3.
The reason I'm putting forward this amendment is to meet the situations that have existed in real life, extraordinary as they are, when victims find themselves subject to publication bans without knowing. Of course, the purpose of Bill S-12 in this section is to fix that, so the amendment I'm putting forward at this point would add after subsection (2) in section 486.4 wording to make it clear that the prosecutor may make an application for an order only after obtaining the written consent of the victim or witness who was the subject of the order or after demonstrating that all reasonable attempts to communicate with the victim or witness have failed. The point is that there must not be a time when a publication ban is applied when the victim has not been made aware of the fact that this is being brought in.
I hope that's a clear and good summary. Thank you, Madam Chair.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you.
My understanding from experience is that the publication ban occurs by operation of law. The question I think we have to grapple with as a committee is this: Do we want something within the amendments that says there is a requirement to let victims know of their right to set aside the ban? That's the fundamental question here. We have a number of amendments here. I'm not sure, just gauging the people in the room here, whether that is palatable, because we would need a subamendment or we would just cut to the chase and say, no, that's just not something we're open to. I know that might not be conventional, but that's my sense.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Shall PV-3 carry?
Do you want me to get a recorded vote? Okay, please go ahead, Mr. Clerk.
(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Thank you. PV-3 is defeated.
Now we're on PV-4.
Shall PV-4 carry? Would you like a recorded vote, or is it on division?
We will have a recorded vote, please.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I'd like to comment on the amendment, first, Madam Chair, if I may.
4:05 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Under the terms of the motion that this committee passed, I do believe that I have a right to speak to PV-4 to explain the reasons that it is being put forward before it's summarily defeated.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Just a moment, Mr. Fortin.
Madame May, you didn't put up your hand, so I didn't know, and it's not necessary by the rules, so it's up to you. Do let us know if you want to speak. I'll let Monsieur Fortin....
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
If Ms. May wants to go first, that's fine. It's up to you, Madam Chair. I'm ready to go, but I have no objections if Ms. May wants to go first.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you, Mr. Fortin.
Ms. May, would you like to say a few words on it before Monsieur Fortin speaks?
4:05 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Yes. I'm very surprised that the last amendment was defeated, because I did think that the committee was aware—as I thought the minister was aware—that Bill S-12 will need amendments in order to meet the goals of ensuring that victims are not subject to publication bans without their knowledge. Therefore, the amendment again here is attempting to ensure, as are others before you, that the rights of the victims are reflected in their advance knowledge of, and permission for, publication bans apply to them.
I am disappointed. I appreciate very much the support from a number of colleagues around the room, but I don't understand why we wouldn't want to ensure that these amendments that go to the issues raised by My Voice, My Choice are all carried.