Justice Committee on Oct. 19th, 2023

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

All right.

I'm advised by the clerk that the number on the document may help Mr. Fortin. It's 002-003-13(a).

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'm opening the document right now.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

The French version is 002-003-16a. I'm going to read the English version, for which everybody will be grateful.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Madam Chair, what I'm saying is serious. I don't think anyone thinks our work is useless or that it should be rushed. It's true that we're in a hurry, but we have to do the job properly. I think I'm right to ask that we identify the documents correctly. There's nothing funny about that.

If I don't understand what we're talking about, I can't work intelligently. Now, my job as a member is to work intelligently, out of respect for the witnesses we've heard, out of respect for the victims and out of respect for the population as a whole.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

You're absolutely right, Mr. Fortin.

Did you find the document?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, I have it in front of me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Very well, thank you.

Mr. Maloney, can you read the English version of the amendment?

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

It is that Bill S-12, in clause 2, be amended by replacing line 13 on page 3 with the following:

make the information known to the public, including when the disclosure is made to a legal professional, a health care professional or a person in a relationship of trust with the victim or witness.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Madam Chair, please allow me a moment to understand the text.

I agree. This does solve the problem I raised earlier. This amendment refers to the situation where “the disclosure is made to a legal professional ...”. This wording satisfies me.

Thank you, Mr. Maloney.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

I'm going to call the question.

Shall amendment G-3.1 carry?

(Amendment agreed to)

Shall clause 2 as amended carry?

(Clause 2 as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(On clause 3)

Mr. Maloney is moving amendment G-4. Thank you very much.

Shall amendment G-4 carry?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

No. Let me reiterate the comments I made earlier, Madam Chair.

The victim is still said to be “the subject of the order”, whereas it is not the victim who is the subject of the order, but rather his identity. This is an important distinction. There are lawyers around the table; I can't believe no one finds this problematic. It's serious.

I just wanted to make that comment, but you can make of it what you will.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

Shall G-4 carry?

(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

Shall G-5, moved by Mr. Maloney, carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We have one that was distributed.

Mr. Fortin, this is amendment G‑5.1. Have you found it?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I haven't had time. I do the same work as you, so obviously I don't have time to deal with three at once.

Can anyone tell me which number this is?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

It's 003-003-37a_FR.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Go ahead, Mr. Maloney.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you.

The new language is that Bill S-12 in clause 3 be amended by replacing line 33 on page 3 with the following:

to the public, including when the disclosure is made to a legal professional, a health care professional or a person in a relationship of trust with the victim, or witness or justice system participant.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That's fine with me, Madam Chair, for the same reasons as before.

Thank you, Mr. Maloney.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, everyone.

Shall G-5.1 carry?

(Amendment agreed to)

Shall G-6 carry?

I hear noes and and I hear yeses.

Mr. Clerk, can we have a recorded vote, please?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Madam Chair, this amendment deletes lines that state the prosecutor's role in informing a victim or witness about the effects and circumstances of a publication ban. That is the exact opposite of what was asked for by witnesses who appeared. They wanted an increased role and an increase in the information provided, so Conservatives will be voting against this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

Mr. Fortin, you have the floor.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I completely agree with Mr. Moore. We had the same discussion earlier, so I don't want to repeat it in full. However, victims are asking for more information, and here we're saying that we're going to inform them as little as possible. We're going to tell them that a publication ban has been issued and that it concerns them, but we're not going to tell them what it is, and we're going to tell them to figure out the rest. I find this disrespectful of the victims.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

Shall G-6 carry?

I think I heard yeses and noes.

Mr. Clerk, can we have a recorded vote on G-6?

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

(Clause 3 as amended agreed to)

(On clause 4)

We are now on amendment G-7, moved by Mr. Maloney.

Shall G-7 carry?