Justice Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

What was sent out was a notice of meeting. What we had was a unanimously passed motion. A motion supersedes a notice of meeting. We had a motion that all members, including both government and opposition members.... We all agreed to have the minister here today. That was a motion passed by this committee.

The minister agreed to be here, but he is not here. I don't know why the minister is not here. I don't see anything in what we're dealing with that would supersede our ability, as parliamentarians—government and opposition—to hold the minister to account for the department he is presiding over. That's our role here. You can understand why there's still an outstanding question in light of that fact.

I acknowledge the facts. One fact is that we passed a motion that the minister be here today, right now. Fact number two is this: The minister is not here.

The question I'm asking, by way of a point of order, is this: When is he going to be here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

We will let you know once we contact the minister's office, after we deal with Bill C-40.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Go ahead, please.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Madam Chair, I believe I have the floor.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm sorry, colleague. Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Mr. Clerk, are you keeping an order?

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I've been trying to get in on this.

It's a simple question: What is the statutory deadline for the minister to come and speak to us on estimates? I understand there is a deadline. I was surprised to hear you say, Madam Chair, that the deadline has come and gone. I wonder why that would be.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

With respect, Madam Chair, these arguments back up the point of order.

The point of order has been made clearly, over and over again. It's for you to rule on. In my opinion, you have already done this quite clearly and unequivocally. We should move on. Hearing further submissions in the form of arguments in support of a point of order that's already been ruled on is completely out of line.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I have a point of order on that. Mr. Maloney did not have the floor. My colleague had the floor. Mr. Maloney was not recognized.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

You weren't recognized. You just spoke out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

We're suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I call this meeting back to order, please.

With respect to all colleagues, there was a motion. We voted on it and it is clear.

We will now proceed with clause-by-clause on Bill C-40. If you don't like what I've ruled on already and you wish to challenge the chair, please go ahead.

[An hon. member]

Is that like saying, “Make my day”?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

I'm not going to do it.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

There will be no more clarification: I have responded to every single point of order. I will not take any points of order. I will now move to Bill C-40.

If you don't like my decision, challenge it.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That's what I want to get clarified, because you made several decisions. I don't want to challenge several decisions, but I think the decision you made—or, from our perspective, did not make—with respect to the question put to you by my colleague, Mr. Moore.... I'm wondering if the chair wishes to reflect upon that.

Before you suspended, Mr. Moore articulated the question again to the committee and to you, Madam Chair, and I believe he was requesting a response. I could be completely mistaken on this, but I don't believe that you ever ruled when the question was originally put to you and then clarified, before we suspended.

Again, I want to reserve my right to challenge whatever ruling you have made. For the most part, I'm not in a position to challenge anything, but I think that out of respect for Mr. Moore and for everybody at this committee, perhaps Madam Chair could reflect upon giving a reason, or a ruling, with respect to Mr. Moore's question.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

We can still invite the minister to appear next week if the minister is available. That is clearly not a problem or an issue.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Is he available next week?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Well, I mean, I'm sitting here right now. It's something that one can find out. It's not a problem.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay. Can I just ask a quick question on that?

Obviously, Madam Chair or someone from your office communicated with the minister to inform him that because of circumstances his presence was not required on today's date, notwithstanding our motion compelling him to attend. Was there a further discussion as to his availability before the House rises before Christmas?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

There was no discussion from the chair or from the clerk on that. There was no discussion. What we understood in this committee, me included, and other members who have spoken—obviously, not you—is that we need to finish Bill C-40 before the minister appears.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I just want to be clear. We don't know for a fact of Minister Virani's ability to attend before we rise for the Christmas break. At this juncture, that has not been confirmed. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

That is absolutely correct.