Justice Committee on Oct. 28th, 2025

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you for being here, everyone. I would like to talk about this for much longer because we all have a lot to say, but time is limited.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

Mr. Baber is next, followed by Mr. Maloney. You each have four minutes.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Commissioner, we heard from you earlier on the fact that, regrettably, the Liberal legislation does not address parole. A violent or repeat offender would be eligible for parole after a third of their sentence. What do you think about that?

[Thomas Carrique]

I think that's another area of legislation and process that absolutely needs to be revisited.

We run a very successful repeat offender parole enforcement program. I am seeing the number of arrests go up year after year, and these are some of the most dangerous offenders in our communities.

We would welcome the opportunity to participate in any review of the parole process.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Commissioner, we've been holding these hearings for a number of weeks now, and almost every panel includes a witness who expresses considerable concern with respect to the prevalence of young offenders in recent years, in particular those involved in gangs and violent crime.

As my colleague Mr. Brock mentioned, the bill does not deal with sentencing nearly as much as it should, but I was astonished to see that it does nothing to address sentencing for young offenders. Is that something that disappoints you in your capacity as the commissioner of the association of police chiefs around the country?

[Thomas Carrique]

I believe it does address one component for the sentencing of young offenders, which is where there has been violence used in the commission of an offence, but we're still reviewing the legislation.

I believe that there needs to be greater attention on young offenders. I have heard previous testimony that the motivation to engage young offenders is the lack of sentencing. That is part of it: There is very little deterrence for a young offender.

What is at the heart of this is the amount of money that young offenders are offered by criminal networks and criminal organizations. It's $5,000 upwards to $100,000, depending on the seriousness of the crime. This is all done electronically, using secure apps. We need the lawful access legislation to get in to refute that and to combat that. That's where we're going to make some real progress in this particular area. It's in taking the profit out of the crime and stopping criminal organizations from victimizing young people.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I appreciate that, Commissioner.

Finally, one of the big fails of the Liberal Bill C-75 is that it created a diversionary framework for offences involving the failure to comply with court orders. Offences such as failure to appear, breach of an undertaking and even breach of bail may go unpunished. That is because basically Bill C-75 allows the Crown to divert some of these cases, and they often do because they're busy or for other reasons.

Are you disappointed that this diversionary framework has not been addressed by Bill C-14?

[Thomas Carrique]

There is an opportunity and an obligation to look at that diversionary framework.

Let's go back to the three primary principles of bail. One of them is maintaining confidence in the judicial system. If we continue to treat the failure to comply or failure to appear charges as administrative charges, we are negatively impacting the reputation of our justice system.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

By not prosecuting or by diverting such offences—offences of failure to comply with a court order—in my view, respectfully, we're undermining the rule of law.

[Thomas Carrique]

We are when we do not take these offences seriously.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Perhaps the Crown prosecutor can take that question in British Columbia.

What do you think about the diversionary powers for the failure to comply with court orders?

[Adam Dalrymple]

Of course, those are policies set by the governments. The provinces, I understand, have set that. We follow whatever the policies are of the provincial government and the laws of the land. We will enforce whatever our legislators decide is appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

Thank you.

We'll have Ms. Lattanzio instead of Mr. Maloney this time, for four minutes.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Gélinas, do you believe that the measures proposed in Bill C‑14, such as expanding the reverse onus and tightening the conditions imposed on violent repeat offenders, will help address operational challenges on the ground?

[André Gélinas]

As I told you earlier, it's a step in the right direction. However, we have to understand that in order for our fellow citizens to continue respecting the justice system, we have to make sure that people who are charged with violent crimes, using firearms, against vulnerable people or on behalf of criminal organizations do not end up on the streets. We must also at least ensure that they comply with their conditions if they are released and that, if they do not, it is considered contempt of our justice system. They bring our system into disrepute, and they should not be released.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

The role of the federal government and its legislation, such as Bill C‑14, is therefore only part of the solution. What measures do you think would be important for Quebec and the other provinces to adopt to align their operational practices with the reforms?

[André Gélinas]

As was mentioned, the provinces are responsible for administering justice. Basically, if the federal legislator doesn't pass laws, we can't do much. However, as we mentioned, Crown attorneys absolutely need to be given the time and resources they need to properly study cases and make the necessary representations to judges. Prosecutors should not be overwhelmed by the number of cases they need to deal with where each individual is represented by one or more lawyers, especially when it comes to organized crime.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

In your experience, what lessons underscore the need to strengthen bail and sentencing provisions and, as proposed in Bill C‑14, to make them tougher to keep communities safe?

[André Gélinas]

Again, as I told you, cases involving organized crime, vulnerable persons, acts of violence and firearms are cases where clemency should be the exception. These people need to be detained. Criminals often tell the police who arrest them that their lawyer will get them released. They often boast about it. That was the case with Bill C‑5 and the abolition of mandatory minimum sentences. These people tell us at the outset that there is no way they will get a mandatory minimum sentence and that they'll cite such and such a reason.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What is the role of prevention?

[André Gélinas]

Prevention is key. You know, it's like a registered retirement savings plan: If you put money into prevention, you obviously won't reap the benefits in the short term, but you'll see long-term effects. Before that, however, mechanisms must be established to gauge the effectiveness of the measures.

Community-based prevention measures, particularly with organizations, have long-term effects, yes. However, prevention also means giving our police officers the means to intervene and do their job, which is to stop and intercept people. Prevention is not just about hosting corn roasts or handing out teddy toys. It also means giving police officers a chance to do their job and meet with people who engage in abnormal behaviours.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What do you think of the collaborative work being done on the ground between police officers and community services?

[André Gélinas]

I think it's a good thing. We have to put our faith in it, because the solution doesn't lie with the courts, the police or community services: It's a team effort. We, the police, have to succeed where all the other processes have failed, whether it's the justice system, the health care system or the school system. We have an obligation to succeed, but certainly the overall outcome depends on teamwork.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

Thank you, Ms. Lattanzio. Your time is up, and it is now 6:30 p.m.

Thank you to the witnesses for their testimony, which was very useful and will help us in our deliberations.

I don't have any administrative things for the committee, so with that, we'll see you on Thursday. The meeting is adjourned.