Evidence of meeting #16 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was see.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Young offenders especially.... When we look at the young men in this country who end up in our criminal justice system, we need to do more. The fact that we still see in 2026 such a high number of young male offenders, many from indigenous communities, is an indication that we need to do more.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I don't know how many seconds I have left, but it's not a lot.
You said the death penalty leads to a reduction in crime, but what about minimum sentences? I just want to make sure I understand. What is the impact of a one or two-year minimum sentence?
Professor, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
I was saying that the death penalty in Texas is an example of where it doesn't fit. If we can truly focus on and put resources into young offenders, we will save money in the long run.
If we target the demographics that are most impacted by our criminal justice system and the lack of resources, it is indigenous first nations youth across this country. By helping them, we're helping not just their communities but all of Canada. We're taking the stresses off our system in a manner that benefits those who need it and those who unfortunately are most pronounced in our justice system: young indigenous men. By giving resources and increasing resources, we will see tenfold returns, with both vibrance and benefits in the communities where those young men come from.
Professor, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
We need to do something.
Liberal
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
I'll start with you, Dr. Sundberg.
I appreciated your comments about how grateful you were that the Liberals agreed to set aside the very divisive Bill C-9 so we could finally focus on bail reform. My Conservative colleagues and I tried to do that dozens of times in the fall, and I'm grateful that last week our Liberal friends finally agreed, so I'm glad to be here.
Let me ask you about the comments you made previously when you said that we have a watered down criminal justice system that has focused more on making excuses for why people committed the bad things they did and how to reintegrate them quickly into society. This is, I think, a very important point, and we have heard from victims that there is no second chance. There is no application of legal theory. They have lost loved ones who they will never get back.
The system cannot afford to get these things wrong. Beyond bail and sentencing, is there something we're missing in this discussion that needs to be front and centre?
Professor, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
There's data and communication. Think of the investment in ensuring that law enforcement professionals across this country have access to information that they can share with one another in a timely manner. Researchers like me should have access to data so we can provide good insight and advice, as should the media, so they can inform Canadians of what's happening.
We have such a stranglehold on our data around crime that it's a hindrance not just for the police in doing their job, but for all of us. If there is one touchpoint where I think Parliament could improve, it's taking a serious look at how we manage information with regard to offenders, at the decisions that are being made in our criminal justice system and at making data with regard to our criminal justice system much more available and transparent, as we see in the other Five Eyes nations. We are far behind in our release of data to those who need it. It's the people's data.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
On Bill C-14, the Liberals have offered a clarification of the principle of restraint, which has become one of the biggest issues identified by law enforcement as having a large effect on why bail has become so easy. Even Ari Goldkind, a defence lawyer who was referenced earlier by my colleague Mr. Chang, said that the principle of restraint has made it easier for him to get his clients bail.
The problem we have here is that the government is saying right now that something different is being said by this from what judges are reading into it. I'm hoping you can help adjudicate this dispute, because law enforcement officials, when they come to us, are saying you can draw a direct line between Bill C-75, which codified the principle of restraint, and a lot of the decisions we now see that have really not made public safety the primary consideration. Who's right here?
Professor, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Restraint is an important consideration, but it must be applied in a structured, consistent and thoughtful manner. I believe that some of the frustrations we see with a lot of Canadians is where it falls short.
Again, I believe it's important to point out that the majority of those who go before a court on a charge will end up in a remand centre. The issue—and I think Mr. Copeland did an excellent job of addressing this—comes down to doing an omnibus collection of charges. It often happens that a lot of information is lost or the information that the police in one jurisdiction might want to know and rely on.... It's about the guidelines. I think Mr. Copeland's idea of focusing on developing guidelines and working on that and the idea by the witness who brought up having ministers meetings are also wise.
I just feel that we haven't been consistent, and we need to get consistency. That's what I feel Parliament has a responsibility to do.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
Thank you Dr. Sundberg.
I'll turn to you, Mr. Copeland. I have time for one further question.
We heard from Minister Fraser last week that the reason Bill C-14 was not the Liberal government's first justice bill was that they wanted to get it right, but you've identified that it only tackles a very small subset of what you think is a broader set of challenges. How much of an impact do you think Bill C-14 will make in light of your previous testimony today?
Deputy Director, Domestic Policy, Macdonald-Laurier Institute, As an Individual
I was involved with the development of Bill C-48. The provinces led the federal government to adopt it at the time. It was focused on just bail because it was politically—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you, Mr. Copeland. I'll have to stop you there.
We're not short on time; we're out of time. In fact, we're well past one o'clock. I'm going to stop the meeting here.
I'll just remind everybody that we're starting at 3:30 on Wednesday, not 4:30. I'm told by our clerk that a number of amendments have been submitted. If there are any stragglers, get them in really quickly, please. I'll see everybody on Wednesday at 3:30.
Thank you to all three of our witnesses for coming today. I know this is not your first time here. I really appreciate your taking the time. It means a lot to all of us, and it's very helpful.
The meeting is adjourned.