Justice Committee on Feb. 4th, 2026

[Clayton Campbell]

I think it's really important, when we're going to see how this bill—if passed—works, to collect data. We have called for an annual report in a recommendation to both the government and the Conservatives. We went further to say that we should really be identifying judges and justices publicly if they have an ongoing pattern of releasing people. There could be training provided to them.

Yes, the public has a right to know when people are released.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Brock, I gave you extra time because of how you started your remarks.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON]

I didn't restart my clock, but internally I thought I was probably getting close to being done.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You deserved extra time for saying what you said.

Ms. Lattanzio, it's over to you.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I, too, would like to take the opportunity to thank employees, who are on the Hill today and this evening, for their long service—six years especially. I would like to thank Stefan Hoffman, my chief of staff, who is here in the room, as well as Laura Anastacio. They are also recipients of this award this evening. I'd like to thank them for their hard work and thank all employees who are going to be receiving their awards this evening.

Mayor Dyas, municipal leaders do not write criminal law, but communities experience the consequences when repeat and violent offenders are released.

What does Bill C-14 signal to cities about Parliament taking responsibility for strengthening bail where risk is at its highest?

[Tom Dyas]

I believe I will go back to the statement I made about being at UBCM and having roughly 189 municipalities there. At that point in time, we were in discussions. A group of us got together to ask the governments to save our streets. The effect that repeat property offences are having within communities and the revolving door—catching individuals and releasing them back into our communities—not only affects our RCMP; it also affects our local bylaws, our fire departments, our DKAs and basically our individuals who are trying to right the wrongs that are happening continually within our community.

We had a forum a week ago in Kelowna where about 300 businesses came together. The concern was consistent. The expense associated with making repairs due to the individuals who are continually breaking glass and stealing things from their store or these repeat offenders within the community is slowly deteriorating downtown cores across the country. Somehow, something needs to be put up to stop this from continually happening.

The continuation of this without addressing it one way or another continues to deteriorate exactly what we're trying to do within our country, which is to make our economics that much stronger with prosperity through many different areas.

The effects are great, but they're not just great for my community. There are continually individuals throughout communities—British Columbia and any other province throughout this country—who don't have one, two or three offences on them, but have hundreds of offences on them. Once they do get charged, they just don't show up for their actual hearing.

Bringing this together and the completion of this will mean a lot. It's just vitally important.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

My next question is for you, Mr. Campbell.

Before I ask you the question, I just want to take the opportunity to acknowledge the work of the frontline workers in Toronto. Recent statistics show significant progress, including a 47.1% decrease in homicides, a 24.8% decrease in auto theft and a 19.5% decrease in robberies. On behalf of the government, we thank you and your members for the work that has contributed to these outstanding outcomes.

Building on that progress, can you speak to how federal measures, like those in Bill C-14 that focus on strengthening bail and sentencing for repeated and violent offenders, can help support continued reductions in serious crimes?

[Clayton Campbell]

We go to a lot of town halls with city councillors. We've been to some with the Conservative Party. We went to one just recently with Ruby Sahota. It is the theme in Toronto. Public safety is still an issue. It's usually number one in polling. We're seeing the numbers come down. We don't want to celebrate too much right away, but we need to be happy about it.

I think a lot of it has to do with some reinvestment in public safety. The police service was underfunded for many years. We're seeing the number of police officers and special constables really increase.

I think it sends a message to the public that the government's listening and getting something done. No bill is perfect. There's not everything in it that we wanted, but it's definitely a step in the right direction. It will help us, hopefully, to keep some of these repeat violent offenders in custody. They've caused some really horrific things in the city of Toronto over the last number of years.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

The law itself can't solve all the issues. On that, policing outcomes depend on the full administration of justice, including courts, prosecutions and corrections.

Can you speak to some of the challenges that officers encounter in Ontario related to the broader justice system, and why federal and provincial governments need to continue working together to sustain and build on recent progress?

[Clayton Campbell]

I think for Ontarians, for Torontonians, we see the government sitting down with our premier and having conversations—the same thing with the mayor of the City of Toronto. I think it's something everybody wants. We want to have safe and healthy communities. We want to go about our daily business without fear of crime. You mentioned some of the statistics.

If you look at places like our TTC, our transit system, you see there is still a lot of fear of crime in the community. I think when you see everybody working together—disagreeing, debating—that's good. Hopefully we will see the passing of Bill C-14 in some form.

Again, we talked about the data—come back and review it at another time. If it hasn't had the impact everybody's looking for, then let's make changes in the future as well.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Bill C-14 is focused on the federal government's role in setting the criminal law framework from a policing perspective. How important is it that bail rules clearly address repeated high-risk offending, so officers can better manage the risk in collective communities?

[Clayton Campbell]

It's been a long ongoing frustration. We're talking about a decade of frustration where we're seeing the same individuals repeatedly, time and time again. In Toronto, we're seeing some horrific crimes, such as people out on bail for shooting somebody only then to commit a murder.

I think making these changes and trying to keep repeat violent offenders in custody is going to send a message to my members too, that the federal government is listening.

I can say for both the Conservatives and the Liberal Party, it's been a great consultative process. We and our members feel like we've been listened to, and our ideas and suggestions have been included in this bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Fortin, we'll go over to you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Dyas, Ms. Veresuk and Mr. Campbell, thank you for joining us today.

Following the example of my colleagues, I too would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the work of my team. Last year, one of my employees celebrated her tenth anniversary with my team and another celebrated her fifth. I want to thank Isabelle and Mireille for working with me. It's always important.

That said, I'll turn to you, Mr. Campbell. Obviously, we've talked a great deal about Bill C‑14. It concerns bail, but also youth criminal justice.

I would like to hear your comments on this. The Supreme Court has already stated that youth who commit crimes are entitled to a presumption of diminished moral culpability in comparison with adults. Given their age, they have heightened vulnerability, less maturity and a reduced capacity for moral judgment.

Do you agree with this statement?

[Clayton Campbell]

We do, although we've proposed that in a small number of limited offences—we're talking about murders, attempted murder, shootings—there should be provisions for adult sentencing.

Also, with the Youth Criminal Justice Act, something you brought up, which I hadn't thought of when I was here before, there are consequences for adults recruiting youth. I was happy to see that it has made its way into Bill C-16. I can hardly keep track of all the numbers, but I think that recommendation was in there.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I understand that, in all cases, you consider that young people who commit crimes such as murder should be prosecuted in adult courts. Any distinctions must be made on a case‑by‑case basis, depending on the individual.

[Clayton Campbell]

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but in some of our discussions and recommendations, if they're showing behaviour that they planned it, that it was premeditated, that they're acting as an adult, we thought that should be something that's considered. It's definitely not that we want the majority of youth...but when we're seeing someone who murders somebody back out in three to four years or less, committing very serious offences, that's unacceptable.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Do you believe in the rehabilitation system, Mr. Campbell? In your opinion, is it unrealistic or is it possible to rehabilitate individuals?

[Clayton Campbell]

Absolutely. In 99% of the cases with youth, but it's just that small number of youth committing.... Say you're walking in downtown Toronto and you kill somebody with a hammer, and it's premeditated. You need to stay in custody because you're going to get back out and continue those offences.

It's a small number.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I gather that you agree that rehabilitation is possible in 99% of cases.

I'll move on to another question.

Bill C‑14 proposes to allow police officers, in urgent situations, to publish information that identifies young people who committed an indictable offence. I would like to hear your comments on this.

Do you think that it's a good idea to allow police officers to do so, or should they ask a court for permission first?

[Clayton Campbell]

I don't have the language in front of me. I think if it's a grave, immediate danger—it's pretty limiting language—the police can get that information out right away. It's imperative. I get that there needs to be a court order in other cases, but if there's an immediate, grave risk to public safety, I think it's really good that we can get that information out quickly.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I gather that you can't think of any examples of situations experienced by your team, which includes 8,500 members, involving an urgent need to publish information without consulting or obtaining authorization from a judge or court. You can't think of any examples.

[Clayton Campbell]

I can definitely get you some examples. I can follow up on that.

When there's an urgent need with a youth who is out there, committing violence, we know their identity and we need to get that to the public immediately. I can get you some examples. Definitely.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I apologize for insisting. You don't need to answer me, of course. However, I would like to know whether you have an example in mind for us.

[Clayton Campbell]

I don't have one offhand, no.