Justice Committee on Feb. 4th, 2026

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In terms of bail data, most experts say that it's difficult for them to do their job. They don't have the data to determine whether recidivism has occurred and to assess the effectiveness of the bail. You touched on this topic a bit with my colleague earlier. I would like to hear your comments on this.

In your opinion, is it possible and feasible to obtain data from all the provinces, or at least from you in Ontario?

[Clayton Campbell]

I don't know if I'd have the answer to it. I just know that with anything you do, you want to measure it. If there's going to be a new piece of legislation, clearly, you're going to want to track whether it's effective. For the process of how that would be done, I don't have an idea offhand, but I think it's important to look at and try to do it.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Campbell.

Mr. Dyas, I would like to ask you the same question. In your opinion, is it possible to share data on recidivism or bail effectiveness?

[Tom Dyas]

I hope it ends up being.... I heard it correctly; the question came through. It was about the sharing of data for repeat offences and bail.

The awareness I have on this is that when individuals are repeatedly committing offences, that information is obtained and held within the court system. At this point in time, individuals are coming before the courts and that information is not readily available and shared appropriately with the judge or the person who is making the future decisions about whether that individual should receive bail or not.

We feel it is appropriate that the information be looked upon. It goes back to the reference I mentioned of 15 individuals in Kelowna in 2024 who had 1,336 offences. Each of them had 80 situations of reoccurrences with police files within one year, and they continued repeatedly to not be held accountable for those situations.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Dyas.

I might have to cut off the staff appreciation extensions. Otherwise, the meeting might go on a lot longer. I know I started it. It's my fault. We're all very incredibly grateful.

Mr. Gill, it's over to you for five minutes, sir.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Good afternoon everyone.

Thanks to all the witnesses.

Mayor Dyas, thank you for your public service.

Right now, repeat offenders are causing a disproportionate amount of crime in your community. Is that correct?

[Tom Dyas]

Yes, that is correct.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Based on what you see in your community, do you agree that Bill C-14, as currently drafted, still leaves repeat offenders free to continue harming communities?

[Tom Dyas]

With reverse onus, with them being held responsible for their repetitive charges, there may be a couple of conditions I mentioned in my comments with regard to adding repeat property offences in there, so there could be some adjustments to Bill C-14 as it sits right now.

I'll go back to what Clayton said. There are communities, municipalities and cities throughout this whole country that need this addressed. It's affecting businesses and our residents. It may not be, at this particular time, exactly the way it needs to be. I think that would come to a future discussion to add it, but it does need to be addressed.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Would you support strengthening Bill C-14 to further reduce repeat crime?

[Tom Dyas]

As I mentioned, there are a few items with regard to reverse onus and adding property and a couple of items in there. However, as I said in my comments, we are grateful, and we're hopeful that this committee and both parties are successful in moving this forward and in continuing to answer those questions.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Based on Kelowna's experience, would you agree that, after multiple bail breaches or repeat offences, public safety should take precedence over continued release and that the law should clearly reflect that threshold?

[Tom Dyas]

Public safety should definitely take precedence over release.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Campbell, do you believe that judges should be required, rather than merely encouraged, to consider an accused person's prior offence when deciding whether to grant bail?

[Clayton Campbell]

Yes, they should.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

In your comments, you mentioned that no bill is perfect. Do you think Bill C-14 still needs specific measures to strengthen it?

[Clayton Campbell]

As I said, we would encourage, at a minimum, that it pass in its current form, but there are some things we asked for that weren't in it. We asked for strengthening things around sureties. We supported the “three strikes and you're out” provision in there. We want to see some tracking and some data that can come back to us.

The parole system itself needs some work, and I had some conversations with the public safety minister on that. We would like to see some changes in that. As I mentioned, a small number of youths committing murder and other heinous acts should be treated as adults and should be sentenced more severely. Those are some things we didn't see.

As I said, no bill is perfect. We support it in its current form. If some things were added, we would support that too.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

You might know that Conservatives have supported a jail not bail act, C-242, which has addressed surety, where criminals should not vouch for criminals for surety purposes. Do you agree with that as well?

[Clayton Campbell]

Yes. We put forward, in our recommendations, as our starting point, that if someone was convicted of a criminal offence, it should be strongly considered whether they could be a surety or not. If they're in a position of power, as an example, or if they've been a surety in the past and someone breached their conditions, they may not qualify for being a surety.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Veresuk, under Bill C-14, extortion punishments are not standard. Mandatory minimum sentences are not introduced. In your view, are mandatory minimums necessary to better protect businesses from extortion, especially in cases of targeted and repeat offences?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You have time for a very short answer.

[Judith Veresuk]

I think any and all tools that help support the prosecution and deterrence of some of these actions that have now cropped up as more commonplace in our downtowns, including extortion, are things we need to explore. If it is not included in Bill C‑14 now—as my colleague here has stated, no bill is perfect—let's continue to come at it. Let's see what's working, see what's not, see what still needs to be addressed, and then address it in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Ms. Dhillon.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today and highlighting the importance of passing Bill C‑14 as quickly as possible.

As you said, Ms. Veresuk, it's not easy to get everything in a bill, but we should start somewhere.

Mr. Campbell, you mentioned that you were happy with the consultative process and were quite satisfied. You would like to see this go through. You specifically mentioned that first responders and frontline police officers were affected by this bill and that it would bring them a certain level of safety as well in their work. Can you please talk to us a little bit more about that?

[Clayton Campbell]

Yes. We were very pleasantly surprised to see first responders, paramedics and firefighters included at sentencing. That has to be considered as an aggravating factor. We work very well with the paramedics union, CUPE 416, and the Toronto firefighters union as well. They were all very supportive of this. I think it sends a really a strong message, too, that first responders are out there risking their lives in helping people. It really should be taken more seriously if they're the subject of a criminal offence or an assault.