Justice Committee on April 15th, 2026

[Jennifer Dunn]

I'm sorry that I repeat myself on this, but it's not one-size-fits-all. Women need to be in the driver's seat when they want to heal or get through something they've been subjected to, whether it's intimate partner violence or coercive control, as we're talking about. I think it's important that there are options for women when they have been subjected to violence.

I touched a little on something we're doing here in London. It's a high-risk action table for femicide prevention, where organizations across sectors come together and work in a collaborative way to identify and intervene. It takes everybody coming together. We can't be siloed when we're doing this work.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

You also told this committee in October that when a violent offender is released, survivors are often forced to relocate, leave work or lose their jobs, or live in hiding. These are not just disruptions; they are losses of safety, identity and stability.

For the sake of the victims, should violent and repeat offenders serve stronger and longer sentences?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You can give a very short answer, please.

[Jennifer Dunn]

Absolutely. A violent and repeat offender needs to be held accountable for what they've done. I agree 100%.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Gill.

Mr. Housefather, go ahead, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Szabo, Ms. St. Germain and Ms. Dunn, thank you very much for being here today.

Ms. Dunn, I'll give you a break since you just answered all of the other questions.

I want to get to the issue of intimate images, which is a subject covered in the bill. It's also covered as part of deepfakes.

One of the things you raised in your opening statement, Ms. St. Germain, is the issue of—and you talked about it with respect to bestiality—criminalizing the distribution but not criminalizing the creation of the materials. I think this is also true with respect to deepfakes.

Can you talk about what your organization believes we should do with respect to adding to that section to include the creation of material and why? Anyone else can elaborate on this as well.

[Monique St. Germain]

When it comes to the intimate images, the creation is what starts the cycle of victimization for the victim. We are seeing a tsunami of instances and examples where these types of images are being created, primarily of women and girls. This is a very gendered issue.

While we are happy to see the distribution of deepfakes being added into the intimate image offence, as well as the addition of the threats portion of that offence, we believe very strongly that the creation of these images also needs to be tackled. It may be there has to be some additional studies and some additional information to have it be constitutionally compliant, but I believe it's possible. I believe that the safety of women and girls in this country demands it.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Can I ask you an additional question? I only have five minutes.

[Monique St. Germain]

Sure.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

We have only until next week to come up with amendments to the bill, so I really want to delve into this.

In terms of the creation when it comes to deepfakes, which are not actual images of the person, could you talk about what harm could be created, in your view, with respect to a deepfake that is never shared?

[Monique St. Germain]

Even if it's never shared, it can be used by the person to enhance cognitive distortions of the person who is depicted. As well, if you have images of a lot of different women, for example, that can help to make you feel like women are available for you in whatever sort of context you might be able to dream up.

I think there's harm to women and girls generally in terms of the existence of these images, even when they are held for private use.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

When it comes to, for example, an actual intimate image that was taken consensually and is somebody who is an adult, presumably that could not be criminalized. It would become criminal in the event that actions were taken with that intimate image. You think, with respect to the deepfake, that it would be different and the creation of the deepfake itself should be covered.

I think I understand. The same would be true with the bestiality images, as I understand that.

[Monique St. Germain]

That's correct. With the bestiality—I wasn't talking about the deepfake—the issue is a little bit different in terms of the possession and having the bestiality depictions be covered in the same way as child sexual abuse material, for all of the same reasons.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I want to go to Ms. Szabo because she raised a different part of the intimate image issue, besides the criminalization issue. It is that most of the victims are real.... The criminalization is one part of this, but there have to be other things because you need to get this off the Internet in order to deal with the primary thing that the victim is concerned about at that moment in time, which is the continued harm that is being done by it being on the Internet.

Ms. Szabo, could you talk about how you see that parallel track and what we should be imposing on the platforms with respect to takedown?

[Kristin Szabo]

Absolutely. There has to be a mandatory time frame for takedown with no exceptions. When you think of the ongoing trauma this could inflict on Canadians, especially young underage Canadians....

We tell our children the Internet is forever. These large tech companies don't have any reason to act on these things in any sort of timely fashion, but we know it's possible. We definitely know that we may have to hit them where it hurts. It may have to be a financial penalty.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you. I'm going to have to stop you there. We're running tight on time.

Mr. Fortin, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Dunn, back to the training issue.

To your knowledge, are there any programs anywhere in Canada that address the issue of domestic violence, either in schools or with adults?

If so, which programs would you like us to pay particular attention to?

If not, are there any obstacles, such as funding issues or others?

[Jennifer Dunn]

I think there are many organizations like ours out there that have many types of programs and initiatives that provide training and education to all different types of sectors.

I'm more than happy to send a list of programs and education measures to the clerk of the committee for you to go through, if you'd like.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That's a good idea. Thank you.

Ms. Szabo, same question.

To your knowledge, are there provinces that are more successful than others in educating children or couples?

[Kristin Szabo]

We are a national organization. I can only speak to the fact that we have heard from all over Canada that education is necessary.

Again, it goes back to funding. As my colleagues have said, we need continued funding so that we can approach this holistically. Parents are only one line of defence, as are educators and people who naturally intersect with children on a day-to-day basis. It really does go back to sustained funding, whether it's provincially or federally.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Szabo.

Ms. St. Germain, I have about 30 seconds left. Same question. To your knowledge, are there any provinces that are performing better than others in educating children or adults about domestic violence or child abuse?

[Monique St. Germain]

Our organization has educational programs that are delivered in schools across the country in both official languages. What we see is almost 100% coverage in the province of Manitoba right now in terms of the programs that we have, which are year over year. They start in elementary school and go right up until high school, focusing on respectful relationships, privacy issues, etc. It's called Kids in the Know.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Ms. St. Germain.