Evidence of meeting #25 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC
Thank you for clarifying. I kept hearing “sons”, so thank you for touching on this subject.
We haven't considered elder abuse in such detail and in such a manner, especially now that it would be part of the Criminal Code. In your opinion, how can we best ensure that any potential extension of the coercive control offence to seniors is evidence-based, carefully designed, and informed by the data and experience we gather once the current framework has been implemented?
Legal Researcher and Analyst, National Institute on Ageing
Of course. The best way to do it is obviously community involvement—stakeholders and service providers—and looking at the experiences of international jurisdictions as well. Take in as much data and information as possible before taking a step forward.
Based on our analysis, we've noted that other jurisdictions have already undertaken this sort of consideration and have found that, when they started out with a narrower approach, specifically intimate partners alone, the prevalence of violence for older adults—because it was no longer just intimate partners and was extended out to other family members and caregivers—meant it was more appropriate to extend the definition of coercive control to include not just intimate partners. This was found in England and Wales. Ireland is now currently making recommendations to make that change. Queensland started off at that stage.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Brock
Mr. Khan, thank you very much.
Mr. Fortin, you may go ahead for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you again to the witnesses for being here.
Ms. Boucher, I'd like to ask you something quickly. You covered a lot. Your testimony is important, so I just want to make sure we are all clear on something.
What happened to your abuser? Did it end after he was sentenced?
Survivor of domestic violence, As an Individual
Right now, my ex is accused of murder.
Survivor of domestic violence, As an Individual
She was a friend. She became a friend. She was someone who reached out to me for help, for support, because of this. Basically, we were friends in secret. I would help her and listen to her without judgment. I was familiar with this, I was familiar with the violence. Unfortunately, I woke up one day to find out she had been murdered.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I'm going to ask you a leading question. I'm not trying to rush you; it's just that I don't have a lot of time.
I'm very familiar with your case, but I want to make sure that my fellow parliamentarians are as well.
As I recall, Gabie Renaud was your abuser's new spouse. Is that correct?
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
He killed her. Actually, he's accused of killing her.
Thank you, Ms. Boucher.
Ms. Brown, you said you wanted the current wording of section 264 of the Criminal Code to remain intact. It uses a subjective test, as opposed to an objective one. Here's the difference. Under the new wording proposed in Bill C‑16, it's sufficient for the woman to fear for her safety, but under the current wording, it's necessary to demonstrate that the fear is objective, that anyone else would have or may have been scared.
Do you really believe that we should keep the current test, that the subjectivity of the situation shouldn't be taken into account?
Executive Director, Valora Place
No, and thank you for clarifying that with me. I think we need to take into account the subjectivity of the situation.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure I understood correctly.
I think my time is up.
Executive Director, Valora Place
I'm really glad you asked me, though. Thank you.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.
Conservative
Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to all of the witnesses for coming here to improve the bill. My question is for Ms. Brown.
The Peel Regional Police have declared domestic violence in my riding of Brampton West and the city an epidemic. They respond to 46 domestic violence calls per day. Are we at a point where the federal government should call domestic violence an epidemic?
Conservative
Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON
Thank you. The Renfrew inquest called on the Government of Canada to explicitly recognize femicides. Do you think the Liberals got that right in this bill, or is there room to improve?
Executive Director, Valora Place
I think there's always room to improve in every single bill, as I said in my presentation this morning and as pointed out by your colleague. I think the need for being serious about femicide has been eloquently described to you this morning by the colleague to my left. Nancy has made the cost really clear. The cost is women's lives.
The current legislation in the amendment talks about being controlling or coercive. It doesn't say coercive control. It is different. Coercive control is intentional and repeated, and it is what abuse is focused on. This needs to be in the legislation, as do the wording and definition of femicide. That's not because the Liberals are or aren't doing something about it, or because the Conservatives are or aren't doing something about it, or because the NDP are or aren't doing something about it. It's because there are over 200 pages of words. Some will need to be revisited, and that would be one of them I would really recommend.
Conservative
Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON
The Renfrew inquest similarly called for Parliament to make coercive control a stand-alone offence.
What concerns do you have about criminalizing victims, and what should be done about it?