Evidence of meeting #25 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Brock
That's your time. You may have an opportunity to complete your opening statement during the questions.
To start our first round, Mr. Lawton, you have six minutes.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
Thank you, witnesses.
Thank you, in particular, Ms. Brown. You and Valora Place do tremendous work back home in our riding. I'm glad you are able to be here today.
One aspect that we haven't yet heard any testimony on is one that I know you know all too well, given that Valora Place serves women in St. Thomas and Elgin. It is the unique character of rural communities as it relates to intimate partner violence. I was wondering if you could speak to how that deserves very specific consideration in the context of our broader discussion on intimate partner violence.
Executive Director, Valora Place
Coercive control in any setting is very challenging. Rural communities.... Where I work and live, I have a lack of cellphone reception at multiple times throughout my day. There is profound isolation. There is not public transportation. There is not a neighbour who hears your calls for help. There is not a person who observes that you haven't left the house. There isn't another person who sees that your partner has harmed your livestock—your animals, which make the foundation of your farm and your community life.
It is very difficult to be seen in rural communities. It is very difficult to have timely access to services, to be heard, and to be supported and helped. It's a real issue.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
Rural cellular coverage goes far beyond what we're able to do in this bill and on this committee.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
When you point that out, I think it speaks to the fact that in some of these relationships, someone may have only a very narrow window of time or opportunity to seek help.
What are better ways that we, through legislation or even through other things we're working on as a Parliament, could try to account for that problem and try to better reach women in these communities who might have an extra challenge or hurdle in getting help?
Executive Director, Valora Place
I go back to the Mass Casualty Commission and also to what we've known in our own hearts from women who have experienced harm and harm we've experienced ourselves. The public education happens in communities, so it happens by being able to gather together. It happens by being able to talk about what has happened in our lives and being able to discuss the reality of harm in confidential and private ways.
To be able to do that, you have to know who you can call. You have to be able to access that location or multiple locations, and you have to know that what happened to you isn't because you're crazy. You may feel crazy as a result of the harm, but you're not, and you need to be believed from the point of the very first person who hears you.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
I know you worked a great deal with my predecessor, Karen Vecchio, who did phenomenal work as an MP on this, including at the status of women committee. One challenge you've spoken up about in the past is the need for better harmonization between levels of government. The law, federally, is what we can deal with here. Beyond that, I know you've identified, as a service provider, challenges in the way that you have to deal with federal—where we are—municipal, county and provincial. A lot of the time, not all of these levels are rowing in the same direction.
Executive Director, Valora Place
Yes, and I don't anticipate rowing in the same direction, to be honest. I anticipate that there will be differences of opinion, that there will be challenges, and that there also will be the possibility of seeing it differently at the municipal, provincial and national levels.
I think the national level sets the tone. If femicide is included in the legislation—I will admit I couldn't find the actual word, and I did look for it a lot—it names the reality of the gender-based fact of harm against women. This sends an important message to our municipal and provincial partners about how fundamentally essential it is to recognize and be really clear about the importance of addressing it.
I think there is lots of opportunity across politics and across political parties, because everyone holds a heart and a desire to show up to make this corner of the world better. I really believe there's an opportunity for non-partisan participation. We exist as a result of work by NDP, Liberal and Conservative governments that have made it possible to support thousands of women each and every single year. I think it creates more possibility than challenge.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
You've touched on what has become a frequent discussion point in our committee deliberations, which is how we view femicide. Femicide isn't defined in the legislation. It is mentioned in a heading of a section, but when we look at what we're actually describing it as, it includes hate-motivated offences against women or people with other identifiable characteristics. It also includes an intimate partner scenario in which it could theoretically be a woman victim.
What would you like to see, if you were amending the bill, as to how we navigate or engage with the term “femicide”?
Executive Director, Valora Place
For sure, clarity is important. Having the definition right in the bill is important. This is about women being killed as a result of being women, so be very clear about what that means. It can be quite distilled. There have been a number of presentations to the committee by a number of legal groups—the National Association of Women and the Law, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund. They've been very clear about wording that can be used to encapsulate this.
When it's that clear, it names the gendered reality of harm. It makes it abundantly clear for federal, provincial and municipal governments.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
In that context, someone could be victimized by intimate partner violence regardless of whether they are a woman or a man, though we know women are disproportionately victims.
Conservative
Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON
Do you think that distinction is necessary?
Executive Director, Valora Place
Yes, I do, because femicide is different from murder generally, in that there are more women being murdered in intimate relationships than people who identify as male. That's statistically founded in what the federal government has shared through Stats Canada, repeatedly.
The risk of being murdered and the fear are so different when one is a woman.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Brock
Thank you, Mr. Lawton.
Ms. Lattanzio, you have the floor for six minutes.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank everyone for being present today and for participating in this very important study of Bill C-16.
Ms. Boucher, thank you for taking the time to appear in person before the committee to share your proposals on this new bill. I want to say that I agree with you when you say that silence will no longer be the answer, and I thank you very much for that. I would just add that it won't be the solution either.
Over the past four months, from January to April, there have already been 10 femicides in Quebec.
BillC‑16 proposes to explicitly include femicide in the Criminal Code. Do you support this measure?
Could you explain to us the impact that including this in the Criminal Code will have on survivors and victims' families, when they know exactly and clearly, once and for all, that femicide will be included in the Criminal Code?
Survivor of domestic violence, As an Individual
In fact, I would even say that including femicide in the Criminal Code is essential, because domestic violence committed by men who have been tried has been minimized for too long. It's been clear for too long that the system can be gamed. Unfortunately, these men are very manipulative. They understand how the system works.
Now, it needs to be really clear that Bill C‑16 will usher in a new era where women feel safe, protected, believed and supported in all of this. Violent men must be shown that femicide is no longer acceptable and that they will now face consequences that reflect their actions.
Therefore, including femicide in the code is really essential, because we're already up to 10 femicides this year. In fact, we've nearly surpassed the number recorded last year, in 2025. There's something wrong with the justice system when domestic violence and femicide are still all too common in the news these days.
It is high time to show that femicide is no longer acceptable. We must no longer allow these men to treat the justice system as a revolving door. There have to be consequences for their actions. For a prolific offender, femicide is the result of escalation. As I said earlier, domestic violence doesn't start with murder, but with things like coercive violence. Therefore, it is very important that this also be indicated in Bill C‑16. That will enable officers to intervene and prevent femicide, which is the result of an escalation of domestic violence. We have to clearly show that this is no longer acceptable.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Ms. Boucher.
My next question is for you, Ms. Brown.
You spoke about deepfakes very briefly in your opening remarks. We are increasingly seeing technology being used to create sexually explicit deepfakes without consent.
Would you agree that updating the law to capture this form of abuse is necessary to keep pace with how perpetrators are targeting women today?
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
That's okay.
The bill also criminalizes threats to distribute intimate images, including deepfakes, and increases penalties. In your experience, how commonly are these kinds of threats used as tools of coercion and control in abusive relationships, and how important is it to address them explicitly in the Criminal Code?
Executive Director, Valora Place
Yes, they're used often, but as for being known to police, no.
Most of the harm.... In fact, I was thinking about it this morning. Of all the women we walk beside every single year, less than 5% ever speak to a police officer about the harm they've experienced or ever speak about a deepfake image that has been created.
Their view of and faith in the justice system are at low, low levels for many reasons, not the least of which are their concerns that they won't be believed, the shame they feel for what has happened to them, and a real resistance to having their decisions interrogated and questioned. I think this has caused low reporting of many different crimes that have occurred, including the distribution of deep fakes and the distribution of nude pictures and pictures of sexual acts that hasn't been consented to.