Justice Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I will read exactly from the bill, subclause 22(1), “If the Attorney General of Canada believes”. That's it, “If the Attorney General of Canada believes”, so it does actually fall to you. As far as whether or not there is a need to consult with other police of jurisdiction, when I look at subclause 16(3), it reads, “If the Commissioner considers it appropriate”, they must then consult with others.

Now, your colleague is whispering something into your ear. Maybe he knows the bill better than you do, but why is so much being rested on your discretion under this bill?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

If anyone knew half as much as the man sitting to my right about this bill, they would be very well informed, Mr. Lawton.

With respect, there's a basic fact of how the criminal law operates in this country that your question seems not to understand—or acknowledge, at least. The authorities invested in the Attorney General for the purpose of criminal prosecution is a delegated authority that falls to prosecution services. This is the case for federal prosecutions. It is the case for provincial justice systems as well. We are not proposing to suddenly usurp the independent role.

By the way, it was celebrated by the last Conservative government under Stephen Harper, to ensure that there would be a separation between the politics and the authorities that are being exercised by the director of public prosecutions. We're not proposing, anywhere in this bill, to change that practice.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Minister Anandasangaree, we know that the majority of financial scams and frauds emanate from overseas, and this has made recovering funds virtually impossible for many police who have tried to investigate them.

What new capabilities does this agency provide that will lead to, in your view, if at all, more funds being recovered, specifically from frauds emanating from overseas?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Oftentimes, frauds or other financial crimes also have a Canadian link and have a Canadian missionary who is part of that exercise. I would say that, yes, in some cases it's led by foreign actors, but in many cases it's led with a partner in Canada.

What this will enable is bringing in and having a global perspective, first of all, on a national level. Let's say two or three different territories, provinces, have similar fact scenarios. They may be able to link it at the Canada financial crimes agency, which, in turn, will be able to collaborate with, for example, our Five Eyes partners, our G7 partners and our other like-minded partners, who will oftentimes face similar sets of challenges in their jurisdictions. This will enable much greater collaboration. At the same time, within Canada, it will enable us to hone down, not as a local police of jurisdiction issue but as much more of a national issue.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

There's nothing to go after more overseas frauds—

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I'm sorry, Mr. Lawton. That concludes your time. Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Mr. Housefather.

Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both ministers for being here.

The United Kingdom's Serious Fraud Office is endowed with both investigative and prosecutorial powers. How is it that we in Canada chose not to combine prosecutorial powers with the investigative powers of the office?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It's a good question.

Owen, perhaps taking the invitation from Mr. Lawton on the previous question, would you care to add on the comparative U.K. question that we just received?

[Owen Ripley, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice]

Thanks very much, Mr. Housefather and Chair, for the question.

The model here really starts from the premise that part of the challenge we're facing in the Canadian context is an operational and tactical one. We have many good law enforcement agencies and prosecution services in this country with expertise in financial crime, but they are inherently provincial. Part of the reason for standing up this agency is to give greater firepower at a national and international scale.

In the model envisioned, the prosecution side would still depend on the arrangement between the PPSC and a provincial prosecution service about which agency would be best placed to advance that prosecution. That's consistent with our custom here in Canada.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I understand and I appreciate the provincial jurisdiction in some of these areas, and certainly the sensitivity shown by my colleague Monsieur Fortin. It would seem to me that one of the biggest advantages of the U.K. office is the combination of having prosecutors work with investigators from the very beginning. I'd encourage us to consider that as we walk through this bill.

There is another issue that I noticed in the bill. Clause 17 of the bill instructs the commissioner to develop criteria for defining “serious and complex financial crimes”. I think that is the wording. I've heard from many legal analysts that the current statutory framework is heavily focused on traditional words like “asset forfeiture” and “money laundering”. One of the things that some people have proposed is amending the text of the bill to explicitly enumerate modern digital threats, such as AI-driven consumer fraud, decentralized cryptocurrency scams, etc.

Was there a thought of actually defining them in the bill, instead of putting them entirely to regulatory discretion?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm happy to offer thoughts, but please feel free, Minister, to supplement.

We think about these things in every piece of legislation: When is it best to put something in legislation rather than in regulatory authorities?

One of my preoccupations with the strategy that we want to put together to fight financial crime is about how quickly it's changing. If we seek with too great a degree of specificity to enumerate the specific types of crimes or activities that could be considered serious and complex or to be financial crime versus some other kind of crime, we run the risk of casting the net too narrowly. That avoids the opportunity to more effectively combat new and emerging threats that we may not be able to imagine today. Investing in the commissioner or in any piece of legislation—in an individual or organization that will have regulatory discretion to make changes to how they define terms—is going to future-proof, in some ways, the strategy that we're adopting today to deal with crimes that may not be widespread but may be major threats tomorrow.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have one other question.

How will the FCA be allowed to share information back and forth with provincial regulatory bodies, given the privacy protections on both sides?

Obviously, we know that many, if not most, of the frauds in Canada begin in private banking institutions and provincial securities at the provincial level. How would we be able to access that information?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Oftentimes there are agreements in place among different jurisdictions, but in most cases, the sharing of information is limited within law enforcement agencies. The financial crime agency will be able to compile information for the purpose of litigation and essentially have information flowing in from the different agencies.

Sometimes warrants, for example, will have to be initiated by the financial crime agency. They will have the powers, like any other law enforcement agency, to be able to execute those warrants and obtain lawful access information under Bill C-22.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

To supplement that answer, I will refer to my opening remarks about the commitment in the spring economic update to explore options for future legislative opportunities. One such opportunity is on information sharing, and not just on new offences or harsher penalties, but on the plumbing that allows the system to work. This is something that I expect will return to this committee at some point, but we've not yet finalized the proposed different legislative measures that we may be looking at to enhance the ability to share information without violating the core principles around privacy that you drew attention to.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much.

We have five minutes left, so I'm going to give two minutes to the Conservatives, two to the Liberals and one to Monsieur Fortin.

We'll start with Mr. Gill for two minutes. I'm keeping time.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

My question is for the public safety minister.

We all know Brampton businesses and families are targets of extortion, organized crime and auto theft, and they are facing shootings and intimidation every single day. Criminal organizations do this for money. Brampton residents want criminals caught, prosecuted and penalized for the offences they are doing. Tell the people of Brampton what Bill C-29 will deliver on day one that the current system cannot.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

For all Canadians, including the people in Brampton, this will enable law enforcement to centralize and work towards resolving issues of transnational organized crime with the principle of following the money that often permeates it, whether in terms of extortion or auto thefts. It is a line of business in which organized criminals go from one step to the other.

This will enable law enforcement, especially at the federal level, to coordinate similarities in crimes that may be taking place in, say, Brampton but also in other jurisdictions in other provinces, and capture the leaders, sometimes with international elements. It will enable law enforcement to share information and work collaboratively with international entities to resolve some of these crimes.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

The residents of Brampton are already funding the RCMP, FINTRAC, CBSA and local police. Why should they believe creating another agency will produce better results instead of more bureaucracy?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I've heard from many of your constituents, Mr. Gill, and what they're looking for is greater collaboration and coordination—

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

I can tell you they do not want another bureaucracy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I'm sorry, Mr. Gill. Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Ms. Begum for two minutes.

[Doly Begum, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

First, I want to thank you both for being here and, of course, recognize the efforts by our government to tackle different types of crimes, especially auto theft, which is one that has impacted my constituents, but also other financial crimes and money laundering, some of which we've spoken about here today. Despite the fearmongering by the Conservative opposition, as well as disinformation and misinformation, I think it's really important for us to highlight exactly what this bill aims to do.

There are different agencies that you'll be working with, especially different provincial partners, in addressing this, as well as RCMP leadership. Are there gaps that you found that you'll be able to address? Based on the challenges we've faced, some of which we've addressed through the previous bills, what are some of the gaps that you think you'll be able to address through Bill C-29?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

There are 13 or so different agencies or entities that play a role in this, including FINTRAC. You have the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions and a range of other actors who currently work somewhat independently with some collaboration, and we have all the law enforcement agencies, whether they're federal, the OPP or local police of jurisdiction.

What the financial crimes agency will do is bring all of those entities, at least from a communications perspective, under one roof to collaborate and, where appropriate, bring forward prosecution that speaks not just to one incident or one issue in one location but to pan-Canadian and certainly international activities that are playing into the financial crimes that we are seeing in our streets.

[Doly Begum, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.