Medical Assistance in Dying Committee on June 6th, 2022

[Stanley Kutcher]

Thank you for that and for your honesty.

The second question is again for both of you.

Have either of you spoken to a young person who is terminally ill and experiencing intolerable suffering and who wanted to be assessed for MAID? Have you spoken to a person—a kid, a young person, a mature minor—who was in that circumstance?

[Ahona Mehdi]

Yes.

[Stanley Kutcher]

What was the situation?

[Ahona Mehdi]

I don't think that it's appropriate for me to disclose. It's very personal information.

[Stanley Kutcher]

It's hard to evaluate that.

Sir, what about you?

[Myeengun Henry]

I have, and it was very interesting, this conversation I had with her. We actually did a naming ceremony for her.

[Stanley Kutcher]

Right....

[Myeengun Henry]

She was considering this, but after we did our ceremony, a lot of her thought process changed, because it wasn't as bad as she felt. We were in that same situation where, as I think I said earlier, when they did have the right people there to assist them, it helped them along tremendously. That's why I said that the ceremonies are really important.

When this young lady was considering that strongly, we, along with the medical professionals at the time.... I guess things changed for her and she didn't have that thought of MAID after the ceremony. I can't tell you how exactly, but she did change her thoughts on it.

[Stanley Kutcher]

Well, thank you very much for that. I think that's a very important point that you made. What I heard was that you said that you and the medical professionals worked with her to have these ceremonies and that you tried to meet that person's needs and, as a result of the intervention, that person changed their mind.

I thank you very much for sharing with the committee how important those kinds of conversations are in meeting the person's needs. Thank you very much for that.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator Kutcher.

Next is Senator Dalphond.

[Pierre Dalphond, Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will ask Ms. Mehdi a question, if she wants to answer.

I'm not sure I understand your position. Are you opposed to anybody who is 18 and below having access to MAID? You say that even in the mid-20s the brain is not yet properly formed, but you accept that 18 is okay even if the brain is not properly formed...?

[Ahona Mehdi]

I also don't believe that past bills moved slowly enough. I don't think enough people were consulted.

I think that's a great point you're bringing up. It can't be right, at 18, that you are able to evaluate whether or not you want to die. I think there needs to be more of an evaluation around all ages, for all disabilities. It's not like a hard cut-off, that it's just under 18.

I think for everybody with a disability, there needs to be more information, and there needs to be more work and more space to consult with these people.

[Pierre Dalphond]

You're right that the choice has to be an informed consent, and it has to come from the patient, not from the doctors. It has to be based on the situation as assessed by the person first, and then assessed by two independent persons, and maybe even more people.

You said that it's difficult to put a line somewhere. If you have somebody who is 17 years old, suffering from cancer, in terrible pain and suffering, and he or she is asking for access to MAID, you will deny that? For example, in some provinces, like in Quebec, at 14 years and over, they can decide to consent or not to medical treatment. That person could refuse to get another treatment and decide that they want to end their suffering. Will your deny them in such a case? Or, do you think there should be no hard line in such a case, so that we could say yes after properly assessing the situation?

[Ahona Mehdi]

Could I ask what your specific question is again?

[Pierre Dalphond]

You have a case of somebody who is 17 years old, who has terminal cancer with no chance of being cured, but having six months to live. That person is asking to put an end to the suffering and to receive MAID. Would you deny that in such a case? Or, according to you, it should be based on that person's request and an assessment of his or her situation, and then in such a case, even if the person is 17 years old, he or she should be provided MAID.

[Ahona Mehdi]

Again, as I mentioned earlier, I do believe in the right to choose.

What I want to come back to is that we're talking a lot about individual rights, which are important, but I'm coming from a perspective that we need to also be censoring collective responsibility, right? We need to be censoring, is it suffering that actually cannot end, despite social circumstances or external circumstances that don't have to do with the functioning of their body or with their physical disability, or whatever disability it is they have.

[Pierre Dalphond]

The question is simple. For somebody who has cancer, is in the terminal stage, has maybe a maximum of six months and is in terrible suffering, can that person have access, according to you, to MAID?

[Ahona Mehdi]

I don't think I would be able to decide that. I don't think it's appropriate for me to say.

[Pierre Dalphond]

So you would refuse the medical aid if the person was asking for it?

[Ahona Mehdi]

I don't know.

[Pierre Dalphond]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator Dalphond.

We'll go to Senator Wallin.

[Pamela Wallin, Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a follow-up question for Ms. Mehdi.

I understand that you support choice, and you support the right not to choose as well—to not opt for this. I think everybody is generally in agreement on that.

I want to come to this other point, where you argued that people are not emotionally or intellectually fully developed until about their mid-twenties.

When you first encountered this issue, you were 17, and now you're 19, you said.

[Ahona Mehdi]

Yes.

[Pamela Wallin]

Okay.

You have obviously very strong opinions on this. Are you arguing that now, at 19, that you in fact are fully emotionally and intellectually developed and therefore able to make this decision?