Evidence of meeting #29 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was markus.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Okay. I'll be brief.
I want to direct my last question to Dr. Frazee.
How can a law such as MAID affect people who aren't directly involved in seeking or receiving MAID, in your opinion?
9:45 a.m.
Professor Emerita, School of Disability Studies, Toronto Metropolitan University, As an Individual
I think one of the best ways I could illustrate this is by an example from another realm of law.
Laws and courts are among the most powerful cultural influences in our society. Last month, in the Munk lecture by Harvard sociologist Michèle Lamont, she observed that following the adoption of same-sex marriage laws in 32 American states, there was a significant decrease of suicide attempts among LGBTQ college students. Those students weren't ready to make wedding plans; that wasn't what was going on. They were hungry for validation, and that simple but monumental legislative change was enough to give them hope.
That's how law works. That's how culture works. What you are doing is going to powerfully affect whether people with disabilities in this country see ourselves as welcomed and valued citizens.
Thank you for your question.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Senator Wallin is now online. Would you kindly go to her at this time?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Pamela Wallin Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
I have unmuted and I hope you can hear me. As you can see, there were technical issues.
I'm sorry, but because of that, I am not sure exactly who said this. However, I think the message is the same: Disabled persons “are dying en masse” because of track two MAID.
Again, one of these things, as we are taking testimony here in front of a committee, is that it's very important that we have actual sources and references to support such a claim. That's a very, very serious one: “dying en masse” because of track two MAID.
I need to clarify this issue.
MAID is the law of the land. If it is not offered to either abled persons or disabled persons, it would be in violation of the law. You must have the same choice. Everyone must have the same choice when it is the law of the land. It is a choice that any individual can access.
I am not sure what the supporting evidence is for disabled persons dying en masse because of track two MAID. Is there anyone who wants to answer that?
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
PhD Candidate, As an Individual
I'm happy to provide the evidence in writing afterwards, if that is helpful.
What I was intending to say is that disabled people are dying en masse in institutions they had been fighting to leave. What I meant in saying that was that through the last century and a half, we've had disabled people dying, ongoing, in a significant capacity, in institutions. Institutions rapidly shorten people's lives and bring them closer to death. Track two has expedited the death in institutions. We have seen this through multiple cases. We can bring those cases forward, and I can send them over email.
It is important to recognize that disabled people are dying because of track two in institutions.
9:50 a.m.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
I'm sorry, but I have to ask you to clarify.
You said, “because of track two”. They're dying because of track two. They must qualify for MAID; otherwise, you can't access MAID.
9:50 a.m.
PhD Candidate, As an Individual
Yes, but as Catherine was saying, there's a ripple effect. Not only are people dying because they qualify—yes, because they are disabled, and as a result they qualify—but also because of the ripple of the changes—
9:50 a.m.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
Okay. I guess this is the thing. When giving testimony at a Senate-House of Commons committee, we have to be very careful of the language that is used.
If you can provide evidence that people are dying in institutional settings, that's one thing, but we cannot have on the record that disabled persons are dying en masse because of track two MAID. I just don't think that's a factual statement, and it makes it difficult for us when we have to consider testimony.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you. This is the end of the testimony.
We'll go back to Senator Martin to close things off.
9:50 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Thank you, and thank you to all of our witnesses.
As requested, Ms. Linton, and I think earlier, Dr. Frazee, if there are additional comments and support material that you can present to the committee, that would be very helpful.
Thank you to our witnesses once again. We will suspend momentarily to prepare for our second panel.
9:55 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
We will resume, colleagues. Thank you.
If I may just make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses who are joining us....
Before speaking, please wait until you are recognized by name. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the joint chairs. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. Interpretation in this video conference will work like in an in-person committee meeting. Those of you online have the choice, at the bottom of your screens, of either floor, English or French. When you're not speaking, please ensure that your microphone is on mute.
With that, this is our final panel in our study before we go into our work plan and the drafting of the report.
Thank you to the witnesses, Jennifer and Mike Schouten, who are here in person, and thank you also to our online witness, Mr. Kevin Liu. Your testimony will be very important to our study as we conclude, so thank you for being here.
We'll begin with opening remarks by Mr. Kevin Liu, followed by Mr. and Mrs. Schouten.
Mr. Liu, you have the floor for five minutes.
9:55 a.m.
Kevin Liu As an Individual
Good morning. It's an honour to have this opportunity to appear as a witness for this committee.
I'm speaking to you as a young person who has conducted a study with other young people aged 16 to 24 about their views on MAID in general and also on MAID for minors. Specifically, we conducted five focus groups, each consisting of three to five participants. I began working on this project when I was 18 years old in my last year of high school, and I conducted this research with the VOICE childhood ethics research program at McGill University. We recently completed the project, and an article is currently under review for publication.
I'm currently 23 years old. I'm a youth adviser as part of the youth advisory council for the VOICE childhood ethics program. The VOICE youth advisory council also contributed a statement in a report on this topic that was commissioned by the Quebec health ministry's end-of-life commission, which Franco Carnevale submitted to this committee as part of his testimony in a previous meeting.
I was given 48 hours to prepare for this testimony, and I'm also a full-time student in dental school, so I tried to prepare as best I could with the time that was available.
My comments this morning are drawn from the results of the project regarding youth perspectives on MAID and MAID for mature minors. Please note that neither I nor the participants in this study are living with life-limiting illnesses and are otherwise from the general population.
Some pertinent results of the study include the following—
November 25th, 2022 / 10 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Mr. Liu, I'm sorry to interrupt. Would you kindly slow down?
10 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
It's because of our interpreters. Also, there's no sound.
Okay, if you could slow down just a little bit.... Also, we have a slight technical issue, so if you wouldn't mind, you could perhaps go back and begin your sentence from where I interrupted you.
Thank you.
10 a.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Madam Chair, if I may, it's true that the interpretation was fast, but we heard it here, and didn't miss anything.
10 a.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
I see. It was loud.
Mr. Liu, could you just slow it down slightly? Otherwise, we have been able to hear you.
I'm sorry about the interruption. Go ahead.
