Evidence of meeting #7 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was maid.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:30 p.m.
Pamela Wallin Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
Thank you, Co-Chair.
I think many people seeking MAID are less able than they once were. Some may be disabled or have become disabled, and some may be contemplating suicide reluctantly because they don't have the option of MAID. I think we have to be very careful in our discussions here that we do some fact-checking. I think it's risky that we accuse MAID providers, licensed medical professionals in this country, of coercing people into MAID, of imposing MAID on people, of making offers of MAID in exchange for freedom. These are matters of law, the courts have ruled on this and the governments have responded by writing very carefully crafted legislation, so I want us to be very cautious in that.
I want to go to Mr. Adams, if I could, because you have been through that process, both attempting to do so under Bill C-14 and then again under Bill C-7. You said that you thought it was an intense process. Give us a couple of examples. Do you think you could have walked in and said, I have nowhere to live, or I'm part of a minority group, please give me MAID, and they would have responded?
8:35 p.m.
As an Individual
I certainly wouldn't think to say those words. I think that would be totally divorced from my reasoning for going forward with the assessment for MAID. And I am an indigenous person, so some of the conversations tonight at this meeting, I feel, were talking about me without me, and I find that a little bit frustrating.
To get back to your question, no, definitely not. I found it very personal in a sense, in that I felt that I was really sharing things with the assessor that perhaps I hadn't told anyone before, things like indignities that had occurred as a result of my symptoms that I haven't even told my parents. These are very sensitive conversations that I had, and I felt heard. For the first time probably in my life, I felt that I was seen, and I can't really give you in proper words the gravity of what I experienced in that assessment. What it meant for me was enormous. I'm sorry to emote here, but it's hard not to. It's profound, that's all I can say.
8:35 p.m.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
But that experience was thorough. You couldn't have walked in and said, “Look, I'm having a bad day”.
8:35 p.m.
Liberal
8:35 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Thank you to all of the witnesses for your very compelling testimonies.
I have two questions for Ms. Jama.
Dr. Heidi Janz has written about Canada's MAID regime saying, “When a government starts making laws based on the premise that some lives are not worth living, it is setting out on an extremely dangerous path”.
Ms. Jama, do you believe that the current MAID framework communicates to people with disabilities that their lives are less valuable than those of able-bodied Canadians?
8:35 p.m.
Sarah Jama
Yes, I have maintained, like many other disabled people throughout this entire conversation, that I am pro-choice in life and in death, but when you have a situation where it's been documented that disabled people are choosing to use MAID because they have no other options available....
Again, I talked about Chris Gladders, who was sitting in his feces and urine for days and then chose to use MAID because of an understaffed, under-cared-for, long-term care situation. He didn't have another option. Yes, this idea that we're going to allow only disabled people and not the rest of the population to use MAID as a way out because of other conditions that they can't control.
I want everybody to have the comfort of using MAID when they want to, but I'm also thinking of all the people who have died. It's been documented. It's in the news. I think you all should look it up. It was in the Toronto Star in the last couple of weeks. I want these people to have their choice, but I don't want more people to die if their needs could have been take care of elsewhere.
My comfort in having MAID as an option is not more important than someone else's life.
8:35 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
What can be done to improve the MAID regime to protect Canadians with disabilities from premature deaths? What recommendations do you have?
8:35 p.m.
Sarah Jama
Like I said earlier, I recommend that this committee move slowly. We're moving really quickly to talk about further potential expansions versus looking back on all of the missteps and potential cases that I'm talking about, which you guys seem to not know about, where people have died when they shouldn't have.
In our jail systems there were situations were MAID was being offered in place of parole to the point where the Canadian Human Rights Commission last week put out a statement against this.
What I'm saying is that we need to slow down. My recommendation is that we take our time and take it seriously.
8:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you very much.
To all of the witnesses, a very big thank you for coming on this evening and for, first of all, putting up with the long delay, and, secondly, for your powerful testimony.
I also want you to know that this is the first session on the theme of disability. We will be talking about this subject as we go forward. There are other sessions planned.
Thank you very much again for your presence this evening.
For the committee members, we have an option here that we can choose to exercise. It requires unanimity. That option is to continue with this session. I'm going to be asking everyone around the table. Bear in mind that there are people who have been waiting for upwards of two hours to provide testimony this evening. I will be looking for a show of hands for those who wish to continue. I need unanimous consent if we're to continue with this meeting. I'm asking for unanimous consent. I want a vote right now.
Those who want to continue the meeting?
8:35 p.m.
An hon. member
What are we voting on?
8:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
At what time would the committee break to vote?
8:40 p.m.
Conservative
8:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
If you decide that you're not going to support unanimous consent, you're going to have to raise your hand and say, “No, I don't support”.
8:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I have a point of order, Chair.
8:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I challenge the chair. We have a right as members to vote, sir.
8:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Please, don't interrupt me when I'm speaking, okay?
The rule says that we can seek unanimous consent. If it isn't given, then we break, and everybody goes to vote.
8:40 p.m.
Conservative
8:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
All right. It's very clear. I'm afraid that we're not going to be able to continue this meeting for the rest of this evening. The meeting for the rest of this evening is cancelled. We're going to have to pick it up at a later time. We cannot ask people to stay on—
8:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
We could break for five minutes, vote, and come back.
