Evidence of meeting #18 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Director, National Centre for Operational Stress Injuries, Veterans Affairs Canada
It is, and also in DND's OTSSC. All of the clinics have staff trained in EMDR.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I guess you're not doctors; I think we heard that caveat at the beginning. So perhaps asking you to comment on clinical.... I won't go there.
But in terms of the whole question of mental health, there are some concerns that we're missing, some gaps here. I'm wondering whether people in the centre of expertise are looking at the kinds of supports that are available for people who have neurological stress, in terms of extra nutritional support and so on: B vitamins—here we go again, guys—
5:05 p.m.
An hon. member
We knew you'd get there sooner or later.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
—and a whole range of nutritional supplementation and minerals that help people who are under stress. The population is quite interested in this; a lot of people take nutritional supplements.
Is anybody exploring how we might help our soldiers with extra nutritional support? And if not, why not?
5:05 p.m.
Director, National Centre for Operational Stress Injuries, Veterans Affairs Canada
I have no idea.
5:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Ste. Anne's Hospital, Veterans Affairs Canada
There isn't any research going on at the centre of expertise in that field.
I'm not able to tell you, but we can find out.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
There seems to be quite an interest, in the orthomolecular medicine world, in identifying factors that contribute to neurological stress and in the idea that many among us may in fact be nutritionally dependent, whether because of a genetic trait, a viral assault, or some other chemical exposures. There's quite a bit of interest in this.
It seems to me, since we're looking at best practices and are aware that perhaps what's out there—I think Mr. Rota mentioned an example of a therapist who wasn't sure how to approach that clinically.... There's lots of room for checking on things that might contribute to better clinical outcomes.
5:05 p.m.
Director, National Centre for Operational Stress Injuries, Veterans Affairs Canada
At the national centre, one of our areas of research is in mental health and OSI, so there's a lot to do. We just created the centre a couple of years ago, so we're just starting with our research agenda.
Actually this has an influence on the mental health state of our clients, and we may, down the road, do some research on it, but at this point we're focusing more on the research that will help us improve our clinical practice of EMDR and treatment with the families within the clinics with therapies.
This may be like your mention of nutrition as something the department might do down the road, but at the national centre we will be focusing first on how we can improve our clinical practice.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Good. Thank you very much.
That ends the second round. We are starting into the third round with the official opposition.
They're good, so we are back over to the government. Okay, they're good, so we'll go to the Bloc.
Mr. Bachand.... No? Okay. And Ms. Black is gone. Well, it looks as though that wraps it up.
Do you have any comments you'd like to make? If you have a recommendation yourselves, you could certainly offer it to us or get it to us in writing.
We're not the veterans affairs committee; we're the defence committee, and our issue is with active service. The mixture you deal with seems to me to be.... I'm not sure how that works; you're from the Department of Veterans Affairs, but you work with active soldiers. Maybe you can get into that a little bit, and then if you do have a recommendation or some issue you think is important to us, go ahead.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Mental Health Policy Directorate, Veterans Affairs Canada
There is one area I'm sure you're very well aware of from your work in this committee. It's the whole area of family services. One of the areas we struggle with in that particular domain is that services tend to be offered to family members based on their partner or their spouse being a client of the department.
What we're finding in terms of research is that very often the family member, whether it's the spouse or the partner or the child, has become impacted as a result of living with someone with an operational stress injury, and yet the individual has not come to us. The veteran has not come to us or the still-serving member of the Canadian Forces has not come to us, and it very often ties our hands in terms of what we can do for the family members. So it would be interesting for your committee to delve into that a bit more. We think there needs to be some legislative or regulatory change that recognizes family members as clients in their own right as a result of the service that their partner has incurred in the military.
I'm not sure if you've had that kind of discussion, but it would be well worthwhile to have it. Our needs on the veterans affairs side are different from what the Department of National Defence has around family services, but I think there needs to be a recognition that when someone goes into the military, it's not just an individual responsibility, but a family unit responsibility, and that there are responsibilities on behalf of the Government of Canada to serve the members of the families in a more effective way.
I throw that to you as something for your consideration.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Thank you.
Ms. Black, while you were out we went through the rotation list. If you have something you want to ask, there's some time here.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
No, I'm just interested in the recommendation and whether you had any other recommendations that you would ask the committee to consider.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Mental Health Policy Directorate, Veterans Affairs Canada
That's certainly the one at the forefront of my mind. I would defer to my colleagues if they have other recommendations.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Well, it's somewhat unfair to.... But if you have something you think of over the next period of time, feel free to get it to us. We'd appreciate that.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Mental Health Policy Directorate, Veterans Affairs Canada
Thank you.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
We travelled a year or more ago out to Petawawa and to Edmonton. Some of the comments we heard from the families of the soldiers were quite remarkable. Some of the things you would just absolutely take for granted become big issues.
For example, perhaps the spouse is at home and the fridge goes on the fritz and she or he is talking to the soldier in the field. It's a big issue at home, and they don't want to bother the soldier over there, and the soldier starts to feel they're being left out, and it just snowballs.
In Petawawa a student, a young child, was called to the principal's office on a school matter. By the time the child got to the office they were frantic, because they thought it was going to be about the parent who was away. All these things--we don't think about them on a regular basis, but they're very important.
Thank you very much. Keep up the good work, and thank you.
Oh, I'm sorry; Mr. Cannis did have a quick question.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
This is for Mr. Clorey, if I may, for clarification.
We've been told that there is variance between the health services provided to the service person and the health services provided to the spouse or partner and the family. Are you, with this recommendation you've made, telling us that should the children or the partner of the service person be going through an experience, they cannot, on their own, seek help? It must be initiated by the service person, by the military person in the family, male or female--is that what I understood?
5:10 p.m.
Director, Mental Health Policy Directorate, Veterans Affairs Canada
What I was speaking of was specifically for veterans. I cannot speak for the Department National Defence.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Mental Health Policy Directorate, Veterans Affairs Canada
For Veterans Affairs, except for a very high level of service to family members, the member that has served in the military must be a client before we can serve the family members. What I am recommending or suggesting, for your consideration, is that you think about a way we can actually help the family member before the client comes to us or if he or she refuses to come to us. In effect, by helping the family member, we will also be able to help the veteran.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Mr. Clorey, I can't thank you enough. As the chairman clearly pointed out, this is a committee on national defence, and as the chairman has also pointed out in the past, there's a veterans affairs committee. Yes, we have our political stripes. But 99% of the time we have in mind the best interests of the men and women who do this work we ask on our behalf.
I would greatly encourage you, on behalf of everybody here, if you're not appearing before the veterans affairs committee, or if you haven't been asked, to submit something like this. Because I believe it is an issue.
Cheryl, in your neck of the woods there's a base, and I'm sure you've heard stories as well. This is something they should be made aware of. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Yes, but you indicated before you left that you had a question. We have a few minutes. Go ahead.
5:15 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I need clarification regarding your table on page 6. You say there were 64 post-traumatic stress disorder cases and 118 psychiatric condition cases in foreign countries. What does that mean? One lady explained to us the other day that there was a common clinic in Kandahar and that sometimes cases were treated there. Is that correct?