National Defence Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Soldiers and their families tell me why they are not renewing. In addition to repeated tours of duty, one of the most common complaints is that the families simply do not have access to health care. In outlying posts, soldiers who have families with dependants who need medical treatment don't even have a clinic.

Now we know that our soldiers in Ontario are required to pay health premiums, even though the federal government pays for their health care. And notwithstanding the millions of dollars that have gone missing in Ontario for eHealth Ontario and now for cancer treatment, is there anything at the federal level that we can do to help the families, so we can retain our highly trained soldiers?

[MGen W. Semianiw]

On the first issue, which is mental health, the policy is that if we have soldiers who have mental health challenges in Petawawa, their families will get support from military psychiatrists, psychologists, and mental health practitioners. Outside of that realm, it is a challenge. We are in the process of examining this issue, and we hope to come up with some ideas and options to study. We know this is a challenge for our military.

On one of our bases in Trenton, we built a mini-mall and brought doctors in. That is the number one issue—finding a doctor. I would assume it's not just an issue for men and women in uniform, but for Canadians across the country, given the state of the health care system. We are trying to ensure that the first line of medical care is available and nearby. We are aware of the problem, and we're examining options to ensure that we can provide the support our people need.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I'd like to recognize the tremendous work that has been done with respect to the children and their access to mental health care. Through the Phoenix Centre for Children and Families, many children who would not otherwise have any coverage are now being helped, and it really makes a difference in the classroom.

Now I'm going to go to more military matters. In the event that a vote recount indicates that someone other than President Karzai has won the presidency, have security preparations been made for the transition, or are any deemed necessary?

[William F. Pentney]

I'm not aware that security preparations have been made, but I am confident that the NATO leadership, including the Canadian leadership in our area of operation, is aware of the security situation. I believe the process is unfolding. The security situation is what it is. There are efforts under way to address it, but I'm not aware of any specific plans to address a transition.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

With respect to equipment, I understand the military focuses on different aspects at different times. You're not necessarily buying everything all at once—ships, your air fleet, etc. I'd like you to tell us more about equipment acquisition.

As to choppers, Chinooks, once chopper pilots are licensed to carry on duties in the military, they know how to fly a Chinook. But are they trained to interact with the army personnel who will be using their services?

[LGen J.P.A. Deschamps]

Once they receive training on the platform, they have to do acculturation, which is living with the army, their customer, to learn how the army operates in the field. This allows them to integrate what they've learned about flying with the tactical scenarios the army has to live with. There is a need to integrate these folks, and there is a period of on-the-job training once they get to the tactical units. It's important to place them close to the army, so they can get that day-to-day interaction with their primary customer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

Mr. Fonberg, did you wish to add something brief?

[Robert Fonberg]

Mr. Chairman, on the issue of equipment acquisition, the rhythm we follow is essentially lined up over a long period of time, based on when the equipment that's being replaced actually needs to be replaced. There is a very long lead time required for these discussions, negotiations, and acquisitions, so that when we get into the replacement of frigates, for example, we still have many years left on the life of the frigates, but we will start the process. We've started that process basically now. The way the rhythm works over time is really driven by the life cycle of the existing equipment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

I will give the floor to Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen.

In the report of the Auditor General this year, National Defence was found to be inadequate in the following areas: planning and management; risk management; and governance. Can you offer some explanations to the committee as to why there is this disconnect between DND officials and senior managers that has delayed the sharing of specific information? Where is the accountability of senior management in terms of not being properly briefed and not being provided with routine reports on their progress? How are they supposed to make informed decisions?

[Robert Fonberg]

That's a very complex set of questions. I have to go back to the Auditor General's report to see whether in fact she said “inadequate”.

This is a very large, very complicated department. The reality is that the organization, on the financial side, is planned extremely well. It tends to be, and it has traditionally been, more of a bottom-up planning exercise than a top-down strategically driven exercise, for a whole variety of reasons that go back into the 1980s and the 1990s.

My view is that what the Auditor General did, and what actually helped us crystallize much of our own thinking, was to identify certain gaps in our strategic and planning architecture, as well as in specific issues around my responsibilities and role as the accounting officer and the need to make sure that we have the right kinds of forums and the right kinds of decisions, or the right kind of information flowing into that forum, to make sure that at the end of the day I would actually have what I needed to be accountable for all the resource decisions in the organization.

When we spoke to the public accounts committee and submitted our management action plan, it was extremely well received. We have been on this in a very thorough and intense way since probably last February. We have our governance right. We have our decision-making forums and control points right. We are completing the alignment that is required between our strategic planning architecture and our actual business allocation processes, and we will have that right as we get into the following year.

So the Auditor General was actually quite comfortable that we're on the right track to address the gaps that she'd recognized.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I will follow up with that later, but my colleague Ms. Neville would like to ask a question.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

I would like to quickly go back to Kapyong, Mr. Fonberg. You well know that the Treasury Board submission for the houses has not gone forward, and it is not being challenged by the first nations communities, at this point anyhow.

There are a number of vacant houses. It's a serious issue in Winnipeg, and I'm hearing anecdotally stories about things going on that shouldn't be.

What would it take to make some of those houses available to members of the community, at whatever market rent you wanted to charge, rather than being prescriptive in military personnel, contract workers, RCMP, etc.?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I understand the House bells are calling members to a vote. I'm not sure what the procedure is in committee, but I see some members have already left. We're being called by whips to go and vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

It's 30 minutes of bells, so we still have some time. We have two choices before us: Ms. Neville can finish in two minutes and after that we can suspend, or we can adjourn our meeting until next week. We need unanimous consent.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Give me an answer, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I suggest that we allow the answer and that we adjourn.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Okay.

[Robert Fonberg]

The aboriginal litigation...as you know, for both the barracks site and the Winnipeg South housing site--the decision covered both--we had hoped that we would be able to negotiate with the aboriginal groups to get agreement notwithstanding the litigation. That didn't happen. With the decision on the duty to consult, we're just going to have to see how we proceed in fact. We are encumbered by the duty to consult, as I understand it.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I understand that, but at the present time there are over 100 houses sitting empty. While the consultation process is in place, people can have a place to live. This has been going on for years.

[Robert Fonberg]

This has been an ongoing issue for us from the last time we were here. Let me say we recognize the frustration. We're looking at the court's decision. We will try to develop a course of action that addresses the competing interest and the legal requirement.

I wish I could be more helpful than that under the circumstances, Mr. Chairman.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, before you adjourn the meeting, I just want to mention that Mr. Bouchard asked a question earlier and it wasn't answered. Could we receive assurances that our witnesses will send us a written response concerning the expeditionary squadron?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

A written response will indeed be forwarded to the committee.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

If there are no objections from committee members, I would now like to adjourn the meeting.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.