Evidence of meeting #3 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was actually.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Mr. Chairman, I have two very quick questions.
First, what cost estimates have been made with regard to savings when the Afghan mission comes to an end in 2011?
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Mr. Chairman, I think the total identified incremental costs of Afghanistan to date are around the $9-billion mark, I think, for the Canadian Forces and National Defence. I don't know exactly the number we're running at in 2009-10 and 2010-11. Whatever that number is, that number will no longer be available to the department and the Canadian Forces. It will no longer be appropriated for us. That number is in the order of $1 billion per year.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
I'd like just a quick clarification. On page 18-7 of the main estimates, under “Program by Activities”.... I think I know the answer, but I just thought I'd ask a quick question. For 2009-10, there was a budget of $1 billion, and then for 2010-11, it's zero.
What was that for?
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
The line item is under “Program by Activities” on page 18-7 in the main estimates. It was $1 billion for 2009-10, and then for 2010-11 it is zero. What is it for?
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I don't know.
Do you know what it is, Kevin?
12:45 p.m.
Kevin Lindsey Assistant Deputy Minister, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
I think, Mr. Chair, that the member is referring to the line item called “Contribute to Canadian government, society and international community in accordance with Canadian interests and values”.
12:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
I think, sir, what this reflects is simply a readjustment of the program activity architecture against which the main estimates are prepared. That money will have been redistributed across the other line items in the main estimates.
The vice-admiral might be able to elaborate on that.
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
If I understand Kevin's point, as we redid our program activity architecture, it actually went from a billion in that line to a billion in other program activities.
12:50 p.m.
VAdm Denis Rouleau
It would have been broken down into the multiple subactivities within that line.
12:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
We can certainly get back to you on that.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Major-General Semianiw, I have a quick question. Pre-deployment exposure to trauma, in my personal view, would be beneficial to our folks in reducing operational stress injuries. Beyond what you have done at Wainwright, which is excellent, are there any efforts to try to expose our CF members to the trauma one would be exposed to but in controlled settings, such as OR or emergency rooms in Canada?
Second, we have a proposal to create a centre of excellence at Royal Roads University. That centre would deal with the acquisition of best practices and research in the care of our CF members and their families. It would not be a treatment centre.
Finally, I would urge having the Bagotville model--having a primary care unit with a day care unit--duplicated in other bases across Canada. That would, in my personal view, really deal with the issue of primary care for our CF members and primary care for their families, which, as you all know better than I, weighs heavily on their minds, particularly when they're deployed abroad. It would enable them to deal with this in terms of the day care they desperately need for their kids when one member is away.
12:50 p.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
To address the first question, I'll use my experience.
When I deployed to Afghanistan in 2005 as the commander of the Canadian contingent, from February until August, all the doctors on my mission we actually put into emergency, into ERs, just before our deployment to ensure that their skills were, at that point in time, adequate for addressing issues from a medical point of view.
That has continued all the way up to today and will continue in the future. We also do training in Wainwright.
For the individual, which I think is what you are getting at, it's resilience training.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
They have less exposure to the kind of...[Inaudible--Editor]...not medical personnel?
12:50 p.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
Agreed, and the issue comes back to....
I would throw this out: the jury is still out on what type of resilience training one should do to ensure one would be prepared. This much we do know. Do we need some form of resilience training? Yes. We're actually looking at it right now. We are doing some form of it already. Over the last year, we've implemented some form of it.
But from an institutionalizing point of view, we're still looking at it, because it's not as simple from a practitioner's point of view that doing this would actually end up dropping the amount of trauma you're going to see. We do that as part of training to ensure that our training is as realistic as possible, which it is if you go to Wainwright. I think that's one aspect of it.
But the tougher side of combat is someone getting injured or killed.
12:50 p.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
That's what you're speaking to. We have done some form of resiliency training, but we're looking at it from an institutional point of view for what we do CF-wide.
On the second one--
12:50 p.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
Okay.
On the second one, I'm more than happy to sit down to talk to them. At least seven or eight different universities have come to us wanting to partner with us on research, to pass on information.
Finally, I'd only throw out to you that there's a danger in using the Bagotville model across the country. Remember: standardization is the death of innovation. The secret of our success in the last couple of years has been allowing local commanders to innovate to meet their needs.
I hear you, and I think there's some sense to it, but the only danger is to say that the Bagotville model will work in Trenton. I think there's a danger in going that way, but we have been practising this, and moving best practices across the country, particularly on the family side, which we did at the summit and we continue to do.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Pascal-Pierre Paillé Bloc Louis-Hébert, QC
Thank you. I wanted to share my time with Mr. Bachand, but since he has slipped away, I will keep going.
It may be a little persistent on my part, but I would like to come back to the Manège militaire business. There is still something I do not understand.
In the text, we can see that $2 million over two years are set aside. But according to the information that I have been able to see, the Manège militaire study has already been done, the report has already been submitted and the public consultation has already taken place. In the budget, which is for two years, there is a figure of a million dollars. So there is a million dollars left, and everything seems to have been done. Only the internal analysis is left.
I would first like to know what is going to be done with the million dollars left over, why the million dollars is not still being used and whether anything else is intended. Second, is this the same $2 million in two different budgets? From what I understand, it is $2 million over two years. I assume that the two amounts are the same: $2 million. Whatever the case may be, a million dollars has still not been used.
