National Defence Committee on March 23rd, 2011

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will share my time with Mr. Boughen.

Thank you, Admiral and other guests, for being here this afternoon. Thank you very much for the important work that our Canadian Forces members are doing in Libya.

Admiral, as we know, we have six CF-18s deployed in Libya, in Trapani. That is six of how many? What's the total number of air force assets involved in the coalition effort, just to give us a sense of proportion?

[RAdm Robert Davidson]

As I recall, the coalition, in its force generation request, looked to have in the order of about 40-plus airplanes for the air mission and a similar kind of number for the maritime mission. There's a maritime protection piece there and other activities there that would merit the application of some air resources. I would say all up, that number is probably somewhere between 60 and 80, but I don't have it at hand. We could probably get that for you if you really wanted it.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

That's fine. I was just looking for a general picture, a general number. Thank you.

Approximately how long is the flying time from Trapani to the coast of Libya?

[RAdm Robert Davidson]

Can I leave that to my air force counterpart to answer?

[MGen Tom Lawson]

It's actually a fairly short ride. About 45 minutes gets you to a place where you can now perform a defensive counter-air mission, and it's a little bit longer to get right over land to carry out offensive-type missions. But the length of time to get there is less a factor than how much time you have on station. Of course that's related to the availability of air-to-air refuelling tankers. We have two of those over there. The typical mission will last three to four hours, of which the majority will be effective time on station.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

So we have six CF-18s there now. If, as events unfold, it's determined that we need additional CF-18s to go from Canada to Trapani, how long would it take to get additional assets there, if required?

[MGen Tom Lawson]

Right. So we can go by as long as it took to get our fighters over there this time. It's about 15 flying hours to get right into theatre. That will include perhaps a stop en route for the refuelling tanker to pick up fuel. That's generally going to give you an idea.

[RAdm Robert Davidson]

But there'll be warning time in advance of that, so if a decision were taken it would take one or two days, depending upon the readiness we've asked our pilots to be at before they're going to be ready to start that flight. So we would keep them at a ready state based upon our expectations and we would reduce that ready state if government asked us to lean forward a bit more, in terms of being ready to deploy.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Boughen.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thanks, Peter, and thanks, Chair.

And certainly let me add my voice of welcome to the panel for taking time to meet with us today.

I have a couple of questions.

I guess the first question may be to our general of the air force. It would be nice to have some F-35s in your hip pocket, I would imagine, on looking at the events as they unfold in Libya.

Could you maybe share with us some of the differences between an aircraft like the CF-18s and the F-35s, the ones we're looking at purchasing?

[MGen Tom Lawson]

First, I should say that the CF-18s we're flying now, although they look exactly the same from the outside, have changed a fair bit as a result of the upgrade from when Mr. Hawn and I flew them. The modernization efforts that went into them have made them a world-class fighter by 2011 standards. In fact they're very, very capable, among the finest fighters in theatre.

That having been said, there's nothing that our CF-18s can do right now that wouldn't be greatly enhanced by the introduction of the F-35, with the capabilities we expect that fighter to have.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

We've heard they're the new fighter of the jet age, the top of the ladder, as it were, in aircraft. Is that your take on it too, sir?

[MGen Tom Lawson]

Indeed. Everything that the air force has done by way of analysis of all those aircraft available to Canada suggests that there is no comparison.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Good. Thank you.

I have one other question. In terms of weapons that are needed in this conflict, how are we equipped? Is Canada doing the job getting the right armaments and whatever is needed by the military to fill our role and take our place as an equal with other nations in doing what it is that we have to do?

[MGen Tom Lawson]

I'll take the question on behalf of the air force. Admiral Davidson may speak on behalf of the navy.

Yes. Of course there is an air-to-air role, for which Canada is extremely well armed and equipped, not only with a radar that allows us to see at the distances that we need to see, but also with long-range and short-range weapons that protect the aircraft and the coalition.

For air-to-ground, the importance of precision-guided munitions has become very clear. Many years ago we used to drop what was called dumb bombs, where you got as close to the target as you could. With such an emphasis in the modern era on reducing collateral damage, precision-guided munitions really become the only option for western forces, and we're well equipped with those. The accuracy of those weapons has once again been well established, as illustrated by the results of the missions we've flown in recent days.

[RAdm Robert Davidson]

The HMCS Charlottetown is at a high state of readiness and has all the weapon systems they require for what they're doing.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

We were doing a study with search and rescue a while ago. We were in Halifax and had the chance to be on the Charlottetown. It's quite a vessel. The sophistication of those vessels is almost mind-boggling. We were in the war room there and saw all the action. It was very well equipped and there was certainly a good crew. We had a great visit. They showed us around, and it was excellent.

[RAdm Robert Davidson]

Indeed, the central part of any weapon system is the people, and the sailors are very well trained.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

That's it.

Thank you very much.

Before going to Mr. Bachand, I just want to thank our witnesses for being with us.

I wish to thank you more particularly for having waited, because we had to extend our work schedule. This has been most useful to all members.

Mr. Bachand, you have the floor. You have a motion to present to us.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chairman, in accordance with procedure, given that my motion relates to the issue we are studying, I am allowed to present it straight away.

I know that people will perhaps say that I am dreaming in technicolour and that we will not be able to put to use this motion if it carries, given the high likelihood that there will be an election. I nevertheless believe that it is important to get it into the pipeline. I am told that there is still a 5% chance that there will not be an election. If such is the case, I would like us to meet with these people once a week, given that the conflict is evolving rapidly.

I know that it may seem naive to bring forward such a motion. It has however been a long time, quite frankly, since we have had such an in-depth discussion with representatives of Foreign Affairs and National Defence. Therefore, given the good will I am sensing on the part of these individuals, I would like us to commit to welcoming them here once a week. I would like this motion to be put to a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Could you read it?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I believe I have provided it to you:

That, starting from the week of March 28, 2011, the Departments of National Defence and Foreign Affairs hold a weekly briefing session for the committee about the situation in Libya.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Bachand.

I would have a question for you regarding your motion. Do you also have the translation?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes. Would you like me to read it?

I will put it on the record: that, starting from the week of March 28, 2011, the Departments of National Defence and Foreign Affairs hold a weekly briefing session for the committee about the situation in Libya.

Do the English and French versions correspond?