National Defence Committee on March 30th, 2010

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colonel, besides the 45-year-old SAR capability, what roles do UAVs or satellite imaging play in your work, and even the issue of jets versus turboprops?

[Col Paul Drover]

Currently, we do not have any UAV capability resident in Canada. We have UAV capability elsewhere. There's no application for search and rescue at this time. I think there's tremendous potential, but it's one we have not tapped into at this time. Similarly, for satellite imagery, the principal use of satellites is currently in the detection of the beacons, which is the signal, but we have no optical capability in terms of satellite capability.

I can't really speak to your third question about jet versus turboprop in terms of the fixed-wing SAR. There's nothing wrong with the turboprop, which is what the Hercules is, I guess, if you're looking for speed and range. I don't know where a jet aircraft would fit in, so I really can't respond to that.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

There have been recent incidents, such as that Inuit teenager on the ice floe in the north, and so on. Our study is on issues of climate change. I asked about imaging and I asked about UAV. Given the changing nature of the north, what kind of long-term planning is being done to look at those options? With these changes, and maybe with the opening of the Northwest Passage in say seven to 10 years, on a summer basis, and with increased activity, these other options may need to come more to the fore. How is this being responded to so that we can be as proactive as we can be?

[Col Paul Drover]

Currently, all those discussions are taking place. There are no programs I am aware of that actually speak to the specifics of finding that capability. It goes to our continual internal sort of review and evaluation of our capabilities. Obviously, there's no question that the most current acquisition capability issue is the fixed-wing search and rescue aircraft. That doesn't discount our interest in other technologies as they evolve, especially in the north. I think we share those challenges with other departments that have other responsibilities as well.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I'll turn it back to my colleague, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you.

I have just a quick comment off the top. I know that Mr. Hawn has said a few things regarding comments we have made here. Respectfully, I would like to make a few comments about what has been said here, in essence, about where we are going with this particular situation. As I said, I have a great deal of respect for you as an airman. I want to make this one comment about the north.

We--your colleague, Mr. Mills, from Alberta, and I--were in Reykjavik at the genesis of this talk on the MOU on search and rescue. A gentleman was there who did a presentation on the circumpolar activity of the eight nations involved. He said that because of the lack of ice cover, the trip to ship goods and resources and the like from the nations across the north can now be reduced by 40% to 60% just by going over the pole alone, which now they can do. With global warming--climate change, if that's what it is--ice is being reduced. I'm loath to use hockey analogies, but I'll use one here. I think it's a question of being where the puck is going to be as opposed to being where it has been. I don't think we fully grasp how much activity is going to be circumpolar. Given the MOU he talked about, it's one thing to declare a sovereignty that is ours, but we have to walk the walk as well.

In your deliberations on the MOU, how far advanced are you within the Canadian perspective?

[Col Paul Drover]

This is the MOU about the Arctic--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It is between the Arctic parliamentarians of the eight nations, yes.

[Col Paul Drover]

I'm not a member of that. I started, but I'm not a member any longer of that committee.

I understand that the target date to have an agreement in place is the next council meeting in the September 11 timeframe, I believe. I think it's developing very well, from what my colleagues report. There's a shared interest in that region of the world, and the MOU speaks to cooperation, which is certainly an honourable thing to be seeking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

Now I will give the floor to Monsieur Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to keep talking about the international agreements, particularly concerning the Circumpolar Forum. Mr. Drover, as we speak, let us imagine that a disaster occurs within our borders, but near Alaska. I imagine the Americans have search and rescue capabilities.

Is it an option to ask them to come and help us? Can that happen? Is that possible?

[Col Paul Drover]

Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, the cooperation between the U.S. and Canada is in place, and we see it frequently, especially if you look at the Great Lakes. The prosecution of SAR incidents will take place using Canadian assets on the American side of the border, and vice versa. In Alaska there is a rescue coordinating centre in Anchorage and they coordinate with our rescue coordinating centres to prosecute cases. They have a SAR capability in their national guard and their coast guard and they would be able to respond to any incident that occurred in Canada. We have, through the same arrangements, the ability to very quickly go across the border and work in Alaska. That happens pretty frequently as well. So there is a good, high level of cooperation between the U.S. and Canada.

For a number of years we've also had Russia involved in a three-nation Arctic SAR program. We did an annual search and rescue exercise. Again, it's all about the agreement and cooperation, so we have the ability to speak with the Russian RCCs, from our RCCs, and to be able to communicate and pass data.

So there's an international capability resident out there, and that happens at the rescue coordinating centres of the various nations. There are a lot of common procedures, so it facilitates our ability to be able to operate internationally.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Are other nations included? You're talking about memoranda of understanding. Do you mean that all the Arctic nations want to reach a cooperation agreement?

[Col Paul Drover]

Yes, the current Arctic Council stood up the SAR task force. Eight nations are, indeed, Arctic nations with interests in the Arctic. They are endeavouring to come up with a common document that would provide cooperation in the provision of SAR services.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

When you were last here, I asked you to tell us about the Civil Air Search and Rescue Association, CASARA. I mistakenly compared those people with the Minutemen, who take justice into their own hands near the American and Mexican borders. This seems to be more serious. These are volunteers who put their aircraft and volunteer efforts in the service of search and rescue efforts. I would like you to tell us a little about that.

Are these people qualified to locate disasters? Are they qualified to conduct rescues? I suppose you have to compensate them financially for using their aircraft, and so on. Can you reassure us as to the soundness of this kind of arrangement? They are virtually integrated into every aspect of search and rescue.

[Col Paul Drover]

Yes, sir, I can speak on behalf of CASARA. As a matter of fact, the last time I was here I did have the president of CASARA as a witness with me.

It's a very mature program. We have organizations represented in all the provinces of Canada and in the territories as well. And it is, as you spoke, a volunteer organization. We provide some funding for training of the individuals who are part of the organization. Their time, essentially, is on a voluntary basis, so there's no wage, remuneration, or pay.

There are two elements to the CASARA organization. There are those who are spotters, and these individuals are trained by our own military SAR crews. And that's part of the training. It's an ongoing requirement that they go to the various units, flying clubs, whatever, and train as professional spotters. There are some skills involved in being able to fly a route and determine, through some trees, where the crash may be, as it's almost obscure or hidden. So there's that element.

The other element is that the individuals have their aircraft and they're flying, they're operating. We again assist in the training to give them some SAR skills in the training. They are essentially used to search for those ELTs that we spoke to. They have equipment, the homing equipment, the same as our SAR aircraft, and depending on the weather conditions, they can do some search operations but no rescue and no aerial delivery of any capacity. They're essentially a resource, and they're very capable in performing those functions, but we don't take them beyond that.

When we do have a search and rescue operation, we actually compensate for their fuel and gas, but not salary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much, Colonel.

Now I will give the floor to Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Colonel Drover, I'm looking at map 2 in your category there. I know it's not totally accurate, because it has St. John's at around the 55th parallel, when it's actually below the 49th. But just using the map as a guide, in the Halifax region the south-east line seems to be pretty close to the land mass of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Below that line, who's responsible for search and rescue?

[Col Paul Drover]

I'm not sure it actually depicts it accurately, but it's fairly close to where it is. The United States are responsible south of our line.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So much of that, even part of the Grand Banks, is in the U.S. jurisdiction and not in Canada's.

[Col Paul Drover]

That's correct.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

On the west coast the Victoria SRR covers some of that, but the Alaska panhandle is in there. So between those two lines, the U.S. is responsible and not Canada.

[Col Paul Drover]

That's correct. A lot of times--south of Newfoundland is a good example--our SAR forces will go into the American area of responsibility in pursuit of SAR operations. That's always coordinated.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

From the backgrounder provided to us by our research people, and my own previous research, the United States seems to have a standard for a mission response. It's no greater than two hours of total response time for any one response unit within the sector or the AOR to arrive on location. So they have two hours, including a 30-minute wheels-up time and 90 minutes to get there. But they have an overall two-hour standard from call notification to being on site.

Do we have any such standard in our search and rescue operation?

[Col Paul Drover]

As far as the level of service we advertise, 90% of the time we make it to the incident site within four hours. I think when you look at the U.S. statistics it's important to note that's not overland SAR. In fact, the federal government does not provide overland SAR. Our system provides overland SAR and over-the-ocean SAR; therefore, on average, we have to go longer distances.

When you look at their coastal response, which is a coast guard responsibility in the U.S., if they have more shore stations they have less territory to cover; therefore, it's logical that they can get there within this prescribed period. To be able to provide a two-hour response time anywhere the incident happens in Canada, you'd need a tremendous number of bases, in addition to the ones you have.