National Defence Committee on March 13th, 2012

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Let me go back and correct you.

The meeting was a meeting we hosted at the Canadian embassy. It was not an emergency meeting. It was a meeting, an opportunity, for us to receive an update—

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm seeking your assistance on this. I have just a minute left.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I would ask that you give the minister a chance to respond. I know that it's your time. I have no power to censor, but at the same time, we are to follow the rules of order and decorum.

The minister is trying to provide you with a reply to your question. I ask the minister to be as concise as possible in his reply.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

The response comes in the form of a yes or no. I would seek that response from the minister.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

The purpose of the meeting, Mr. Chair, was to receive an update on the progress of the joint strike fighter program. Costs were not specified, although costs were part of the discussion, as was the progress of the joint strike fighter program.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

And were you updated, Mr. Fantino? Answer yes or no, with a cost figure for production schedules.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Yes?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

We've seen this line of questioning from two members of the opposition. I fail to see the relationship between this meeting and the supplementary estimates (C) for 2011-2012 or the main estimates for 2012-2013.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You are free to ask whatever questions you want. On the main estimates, usually the discussion is fairly wide-ranging, since they also include the mains and allude to future priorities of the government. Since Mr. Kellway's time has expired, I'll give him one last question and a chance for the minister to respond.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Can I get an answer to that question? I was interrupted.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Your time had almost expired before the point of order. So you have one last question and then a response from the minister.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Fantino, yes or no, were you given an updated costs estimate in Washington for the F-35 based on the reprofiling of the production schedule? What was the cost schedule you were given?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

We discussed costs but no definite cost allocation was identified.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you. Time has expired.

Mr. Norlock.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to the witnesses for appearing today. As a member of Parliament who hosts Canada's 8 Wing at CFB Trenton, I have a great understanding of some of the issues surrounding our Canadian Forces personnel and their requirements. Any equipment the Canadian Forces purchases is the best equipment. It tends to be expensive, but I think you have support for that expense from the people of Canada.

The main estimates indicate that one of the factors contributing to the net decrease of the DND budget had to do with the $255.7 million for the Canada First defence strategy. What programs within the CFDS no longer require funding? Sometimes there are issues surrounding the manner in which this is reported.

I have two supplementary questions. The main estimates indicate that approximately $2.2 billion will be spent on joint and common readiness, a topic this committee has been studying. What programs and activities will these funds be supporting?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock, and thank you for your ongoing and vibrant support for 8 Wing and the Canadian Forces.

You are right to suggest that the Canada First defence strategy remains our guiding vision. It will have to be updated, and will be updated in the near future.

With respect to the figures you've referenced, the main estimates include a decrease of $255.7 million. This is a reflection of something I've referred to here a number of times—the termination of the combat mission in Afghanistan. With the operational tempo giving way to the training mission, we've gone from 3,000 to under 1,000 people in-country. We've seen the costs associated with the expansion of the Canadian Forces when we were engaged in combat increase as a reflection of equipment needs for the mission—the UAVs, tanks, aircraft, and other in-theatre equipment to support the men and women in uniform. This has changed as a result of ending combat and transitioning to training.

With respect to the second part of your question, the overall profiling of the larger number reflects the whole spectrum of the Canada First defence strategy. We always seek a balance between equipment, personnel, infrastructure, and readiness. The readiness is always a bit more difficult to define in dollar amounts because it refers to the training ,and in some cases, to the reaction to missions like Libya and Haiti that appear quite suddenly. But that is the budgetary allotment for the Canada First defence strategy.

We want to keep it fresh and keep those men and women in uniform, as well as the administration that supports them, ready to do this important work on behalf of our country.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you.

Another supplementary question.... The main estimates indicate that approximately $349 million will be spent on Canadian identity. What programs and activities will these funds support? Now, I know Mr. Chisu referred to, of course, our activities in the north. These may also be part of that, but I did notice those in the estimates.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

What's the figure, again, I'm sorry, sir?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

It indicated that approximately $349 million will be spent on Canadian identity. I pull these out. I just wondered about the programs and activities that they'll support.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Well, I wouldn't define it as narrowly as “identity”. It is very much, as you referenced, partly accounted for by the operations that occur in the Arctic now. It includes Arctic sovereignty patrol, Arctic sovereignty operations, and the equipment that support those, including specific investments.

Mr. Chisu referred to these earlier with regard to Arctic patrol vessels that will be specifically tasked to take on the very onerous, but important, role of patrolling those opening waters in and around the Arctic—the massive territory that there is to cover there, both land and sea. We have, in essence now, three oceans that we're responsible for. It's 18-million square kilometres of territory, when it comes to the search and rescue responsibility of those SAR technicians. So “identity” is perhaps very much a narrow definition of the services provided to Canada—the home game, if you will. NORAD and our responsibilities to patrol the skies over North America now including maritime approaches....

This is the important job one. This is the first in the Canada First defence strategy. It's ensuring our responsibilities to our population, our sovereignty, our people, and our first interests here at home. That's the allotment that's referenced here in the main estimates.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you. The time has expired.

Mr. Brahmi, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to follow up on the answers given by the associate minister. I think I heard twice in his testimony that he used the word “if”— if we go on with that airplane, if this airplane is the choice.

First, I would like him to confirm that he used “if”, and if yes, is there any other option than the F-35?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Thank you.

One of the things that I know for certain is that Canada remains involved in the joint strike fighter program, but the “if” pertains to the decision. The determinate decision has not as yet been made as to whether or not we are going to actually purchase, buy, acquire the F-35.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay, thanks for the answer.

I would like to ask you another question. Should that happen, that is, if we do not opt for the F-35, what would the procedure be? Would there be a call for tenders to ascertain what the other options are?