National Defence Committee on March 11th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Colleagues, because of time considerations and the vicissitudes of parliamentary procedure, we will get under way immediately.

As you know, we are here to consider the supplementary estimates (C) 2014-15, vote 1c under the Communications Security Establishment and vote 1c under National Defence, referred to this committee on Thursday, February 19, 2015.

We have two witnesses appearing before us today: the Hon. Jason Kenney, P.C., MP, Minister of National Defence; and the Hon. Julian Fantino, P.C., MP, the Associate Minister of National Defence.

We will begin with opening statements.

Mr. Harris, on a point of order.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Looking at the hour we're beginning here, I would suggest that we either get a commitment from the minister to stay for a full hour of our committee meeting today or that we dispense with opening remarks and get straight to the questions. He's here to deal with questions on the estimates. We have questions that we'd like to ask, and I'm sure the government members can ask whatever questions they need to ask to elicit the answers the minister wants to give.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

I understand that we are operating under time constraints. I understand that the minister has an obligation at 5 o'clock.

Mr. Bezan, you're responding to the point of order?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

It's not a point of order. I would just say that it is in our routine proceedings that witnesses be allowed to give opening remarks, and I wish we'd respect our routine proceedings and move on that basis.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

It is a point of order, and it has to do with the order of business and the fact that we've been deprived of half an hour as a result of the vote.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

That's the nature of the business here.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

The minister may have a commitment at 5 o'clock, but what could be more important than speaking before this committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Mr. Harris, we're here to consider the supplementary estimates.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I think we need to move on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

The time frame within which we can consider the supplementary estimates is now. The minister has indicated that he will be returning to discuss the main estimates, but we will proceed now.

Minister Kenney, your opening remarks, please.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Minister of National Defence]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Just for greater clarity, I would be happy to come back to committee after the next vote. I think we're participating in another vote, but I have to leave this building by about 5:25 for an important speech that has been planned with a group from all across Canada, so I could come back until 5:25.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Well, thank you. We'll see how the clock stands at the end of the vote.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you, colleagues. It's a great honour to be in your midst for the first time in my capacity as Minister for National Defence. As I said on my very first day in this post, there is no greater privilege and honour than to serve with our men and women in uniform. I come from a long history of military service in my own family, including my own father who was a jet fighter pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force, so this position is the highest honour and privilege of my life, to be honest.

I look forward to working with all of you who I know share my commitment and dedication to the Canadian Armed Forces and their critically important mission.

I'm delighted to be joined here by my associate minister, Julian Fantino; as well as senior associate deputy minister, Bill Jones; our chief financial officer, Claude Rochette; acting vice-chief, Major-General John Madower; and the chief of the Communications Security Establishment, Greta Bossenmaier.

As I said, this is my first time before you, and before I begin my statement on the supplementary estimates, colleagues, let me reiterate our shared condolences to the family of Sergeant Andrew Doiron, who I met yesterday at the ramp repatriation ceremony with His Excellency the Governor General at CFB Trenton. I know that all of our thoughts are with him and his comrades.

I was so impressed to see a large squad of his comrades from the Canadian Special Operations Regiment and JTF2 attending the ramp ceremony and expressing their ongoing determination to serve Canada, including their support for our mission against ISIL in Iraq.

Looking back, Mr. Chair, 2014 will prove to have been a pivotal year for domestic and international security. We saw, of course, Russia's brazen de facto invasion of Ukraine; the spread of the terrorist death cult known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant in the Middle East; and of course the murders of two members of the Canadian Armed Forces right here at home.

We see growing international instability, which is becoming a growing threat both to Canadians and to Canadian interests abroad. It is incumbent upon us to play our part when it comes to contributing to international peace and security. Doing so often means deployed operations, which by their very nature incur incremental costs.

It's in this context that I come before you today.

In the supplementary estimates (C), the Department of National Defence is requesting an additional $142.3 million in spending authorities. Of this amount, $138.1 million will cover additional costs for overseas operations, the bulk of which, $122.6 million, to be precise, is dedicated to Operation Impact. That is our contribution to the multinational coalition against ISIL in the Republic of Iraq.

Operation Impact consists of approximately 600 personnel, six CF-18 fighters, one CC-150 Polaris aerial refueller, and two CP-140 Aurora reconnaissance aircraft. This newly modernized equipment is doing tremendous work with the coalition. We also have members of our special operations forces, as I just mentioned, advising and assisting local forces, particularly the Kurdish peshmerga in the Erbil region of the Kurdish part of northern Iraq.

The majority of the costs identified under Op Impact—approximately $73.6 million—are for aircraft and ammunition costs. This includes fuel, operation and maintenance, spare parts, ammunition and in-service support.

The assets covered in this cost also include the deployed aircraft I mentioned a moment ago, as well as the C-17 Globemaster and the C-130 Hercules transport aircraft that are sustaining the mission. This number also includes $8.8 million in personnel costs, such as certain allowances granted to deployed members, including hardship and risk allowances. Other personnel-related costs, such as incidentals and ground transportation for personnel transiting to and from theatre, total $2.2 million.

Meals and accommodation costs for personnel while in theatre total $34.2 million.

Moreover, other costs, such as camp set-up fees, the re-supply of general consumable material, and other miscellaneous amenities and local purchases total $3.3 million.

Mr. Chair, I can tell the committee that the coalition against ISIL is having a real impact. Where last year ISIL roamed unfettered, gaining more territory day by day, they can no longer do so. They can no longer move in large-scale troop movements. They are no longer gaining territory in Iraq. They are, instead, losing territory there. Air strikes are having a demonstrable impact upon their command and control capabilities, as well as removing key equipment and personnel from the battlefield. When they do go on the offensive—that is to say, when ISIL does—they take significant losses.

We have reports that they are moving increasing amounts of their armoured equipment and heavy equipment from Iraq into Syria in order to move them away from the allied air campaign.

As you know, the most recent news is that “An Iraqi security force mission against ISIL in Tikrit has apparently been successful in pushing them back and ISIL is on the retreat. This is all good news, but yet more needs to be done.”

Mr. Chair, the department is also requesting $17 million in incremental costs for Operation Reassurance. That is our contribution to NATO assurance measures in central and eastern Europe, to send a clear message to Vladimir Putin that we stand with our NATO allies against his intimidation of the sovereign nations of central and eastern Europe that are our NATO allies.

This op's impact includes military activities such as Baltic air policing—four Canadian Hornets have been involved in those activities—infantry ground training exercises, of course, and the presence, currently, of the HMCS Fredericton in the Black Sea.

Mr. Chair, in addition to funding for the two major operations currently underway, you will see that the supplementary estimates also include provisions for several other areas.

We are requesting $3 million for the Canadian Armed Forces advertising campaign, to ensure our recruiting targets are met and our military is well placed to fulfill its missions in Canada and around the world.

I just want to add a little point here. We often hear parliamentarians gross up every dollar spent by the Government of Canada on advertising and characterize it as partisan.

Mr. Chair, every single government in modern Canada has had a budget for Canadian Armed Forces advertising for recruitment purposes. It's an essential part of our recruitment strategy, and that of every other modern military.

I would ask members, if they want to be intellectually honest about this, to reflect the fact that this is normal CAF recruitment advertising, not what is mis-characterized as partisan or political advertising.

Also, $1.75 million will go towards site remediation work, as the department takes our responsibilities as property holders and environmental stewards very seriously.

I would note that the estimates also include $2.5 million in transfers to other organizations: $1.39 million to Shared Services Canada for costs associated with access to rapid and secure satellite communications; and $461,000 to the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council to support joint research grant projects.

If approved, these funds would raise National Defence's total spending authorities to over $20 billion this fiscal year, an increase from just over $19.9 billion in supplementary estimates (B). Just to give this some context, it would be an increase from the forces budget in 2005, which was then a little over $14 billion; so a 27% increase in the past nine years.

These estimates demonstrate the government's steadfast commitment to ensuring that the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces will always have the equipment and resources they need to get the job done that we have asked of them.

Mr. Chairman, I look forward to any questions you may have. I believe Minister Fantino may have his own remarks.

I'm sorry for speaking so quickly to the translators, but I'm trying to respect your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Minister Kenney.

Minister Fantino, please.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Associate Minister of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee today. I'm pleased to be here with Minister Kenney and, of course, members of the Canadian Armed Forces and officials as well.

Like Minister Kenney, I would like to preface my remarks by extending my condolences to the family of Sergeant Doiron, who was tragically killed in Iraq this past Friday. His death is a sombre reminder that the pursuit of international peace and security is not without risk. I wish to also extend a speedy recovery to his colleagues who were wounded during the incident.

It's a privilege to be here as Associate Minister of National Defence. I'm honoured to return to this department, working with great people, endeavouring to serve great causes on behalf of our country and free nations.

My role as Associate Minister of National Defence encompasses a number of very specific areas. First, it involves making sure our sovereignty is exercised in the north. The role of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces in the Arctic is clearly defined by the Canada First defence strategy. With increased commercial shipping, natural resource exploration, and tourism in the north, it is ever more critical that National Defence has the right surveillance and monitoring capabilities, emergency response options, and appropriate policies in place to enable the Canadian Armed Forces to fulfill its responsibilities in the Arctic.

Another major responsibility of my portfolio is information technology security and foreign intelligence, which serve to defend our nation's security, values, and interests. While this environment might be more abstract, its effect is unequivocally tangible. The Internet and communications technologies have transformed almost every aspect of our lives. These advances in how we communicate with each other have in fact produced incredible opportunities, but have also meant new vulnerabilities and challenges.

While the Department of Public Safety maintains the lead for implementing the Government of Canada's cyber-security strategy, the Communications Security Establishment, or CSE, has a vital role in protecting and defending federal government systems. National Defence also plays a supporting role, and has great interest in protecting its systems against cyber-threats given the military's reliance on cyberspace to enable its operations. As we have seen recently, cyberspace is progressively more of a target for both terrorists and malicious cyber-actors. Government of Canada networks are attacked millions of times every single day. Some of these provoking acts are done by foreign states like Russia, which seek to expand their influence at the expense of Canadian interests. We must remain vigilant and we must protect Canadian sovereignty from those who would do us harm.

Finally, Mr. Chair and members, let me turn to the relatively minor housekeeping items in the estimates before you that pertain to the Communications Security Establishment. You will note the transfer of two generators to Canadian Forces Base Trenton from CSE in the amount of $600,000. These generators were no longer required by CSE after the construction of the new headquarters. There was also a $10,000 transfer from Public Works to CSE for reimbursement on the transformation of pay administration. For the safety and privacy of its employees, CSE will use its own payroll system rather than be integrated into the government-wide system.

With that, Mr. Chair and members, I will bring my remarks to a close. I would be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Minister Fantino.

We will begin our questions with Mr. Chisu, please.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, ministers, for appearing in front of the committee.

Minister Kenney, thank you especially for appearing before this committee today, and congratulations on your appointment.

Seeing that this is the national defence committee, could you please explain to us and all Canadians why it is so important, from a national defence perspective, to have members from our Canadian Armed Forces abroad contributing to the fight against ISIL?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Chair, before doing so, I've neglected to mention the presence of Commodore Scott Bishop, who is here as well.

Sorry, Commodore, I didn't see you at the end of the table there.

Mr. Chisu, thank you for that question.

We know that the phenomena of jihadist terrorism is not new. This is a uniquely pernicious form of violence and political instability that ranges all the way from West Africa and Nigeria, with Boko Haram, down to militias in Mindanao in the southern Philippines, in an arc of violence that claims hundreds of victims, often every day, and that seeks increasingly to project its dystopian vision of a caliphate, based on a violent application of 7th century sharia legal concepts, throughout the world.

What is unique with the so-called ISIL movement, or in Arabic “Daesh”, is that it has explicitly declared itself the caliphate, an idea that is unfortunately very seductive to many radicalized individuals who are attracted to this dystopian idea. This is why the number of people willing to risk or sacrifice their lives for this so-called caliphate has continued to increase.

We—and when I say “we” I mean the civilized world—must do everything that we can to ensure that this movement does not have the capacity to metastasize from a pseudostate into a real state. Had the world not taken action with the coalition beginning last fall, had ISIL been able to continue gaining territory in Iraq by taking advantage of certain weaknesses in that country, had it been able to take possession of oilfields and other cities—they took possession of the second-largest city in Iraq, the ancient Mesopotamian capital of Mosul—and had they been able to continue doing this, their prestige as a movement would have grown. Their capacity to recruit individuals and their resources and finances would have increased, and they would be posing a very serious, perhaps existential, threat to security in the Middle East.

Let us not forget that most of the militants who have joined Daesh are people who have come from other countries—all the way from West Africa, to North America, to Western Europe, etc.—and many of these people pose a security risk to us should they return home. We believe there is not an insignificant number of Canadians participating in the jihadi campaign of Daesh. It is incumbent upon us, at the very least, to contain this death cult, as I characterize it, to prevent it from gaining new territory and additional resources, to degrade its capabilities, and ultimately in partnership with our allies in the Middle East to destroy it. That will send an important message to those who might be inspired to Daesh's message of radicalization that it is not in fact the realization of this dystopian dream of the caliphate, and that it is just a bunch of rag-tag thugs.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Minister, in your opinion, why is it so important that Canada participate in this mission as a member of an international coalition?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Obviously with our limited resources and our geographic remoteness, we have limited capabilities to contain and degrade an organization like this operating in the Middle East. However, we do have a role to play, as your question suggests, with our allies. So we are there, and there are actually over 60 countries that have joined in one form or another the international coalition against ISIL, against Daesh. Our Chief of the Defence Staff, General Lawson, recently attended a meeting in Riyadh with his counterparts from those more than 60 countries. Approximately 24 of those countries are engaged in active military operations in Iraq and/or in Syria against Daesh. The tradition of Canada is that when our security is threatened, when there is a serious, destabilizing threat to global security such as this, our values dictate, and in this case our interests require, that we play a role and not sit on the sidelines.

I would remind you, Mr. Chisu, that we are taking a whole-of-government approach to the menace of Daesh. We are doing so through what is, I believe, the world's sixth largest humanitarian aid contribution to the internally displaced persons of Iraq. Through our diplomatic efforts, Minister Nicholson just visited Baghdad and Erbil, as well as Amman and Abu Dhabi, to discuss our political efforts in the containment of ISIL. Our encouragement to the Iraqi government and parliamentarians to unify and avoid sectarian divisions in confronting ISIL, but we believe there is an essential military component to this. The military dimension is not sufficient, but it is necessary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you.

Time is up, Mr. Chisu.

Mr. Harris, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Kenny, for joining us today, and for agreeing to stay for a full hour despite the fact that we, unfortunately, often have the bells ringing during these committee meetings at this time of day.

Congratulations on your appointment as minister.

I will have to start with a question about your communications to the public in the form of Twitter. Shouldn't the public of Canada really expect that when the Minister of National Defence communicates in this way, it be based in reality and not on some mistaken understanding of what's going on in other parts of the world? Can we expect that? And, sir, would you be prepared to refrain from these kinds of offensive and erroneous propaganda attempts in the future?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Point of order, Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I'll leave it to the minister whether or not he wants to respond to that.