National Defence Committee on March 11th, 2015

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. member]

For 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Mr. Harris, you have three minutes remaining.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Minister, I would like to advise you of a media report earlier this week from military sources suggesting that the preparations by special forces for expansion have already been made, establishing logistics and medical support in northern Iraq that would be required for an expansion of the mission. In light of this information and the sad death of Sergeant Doiron and the other casualties, are further casualties being anticipated? Is this being done in anticipation of Canada's increasing the number of boots on the ground?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm not familiar with that report or any additional assets in support of our SOF personnel in northern Iraq, and I can tell you that there is no planning to increase the commitment of 69 special operators in that region. If you ask are we anticipating more casualties, we certainly hope not. There is of course an inherent risk in any military deployment, as Mr. Harris will well know. Of course, that's why we have to ensure that there's appropriate support for our troops. But I'm not aware of any increase in infrastructure. We certainly have no intention of increasing the number of SOF operators in the region.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Is there any contemplation being given to changes in the instructions to our forces to stick to the notion of aiding, assisting, and training, and avoiding the combat zones that we've had?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

You've accurately described the current rules of engagement that were reflected in the motion that was adopted in Parliament last fall. The government has not yet taken a final decision on potential renewal or extension of the mission, so I would have to ask the member to wait until that decision is taken. We will certainly report it to Parliament in the form of a motion.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You spoke today in the House, and we've heard other reports about the activities of the Iraqi forces—not the Kurdish force, but the Iraqi forces—operating against Tikrit. One of the other reports we're getting is that the Saudis are complaining that the Iraqis are being commanded by revolutionary guards from Iran and that the Shia militias are receiving that....

Are we now then the allies of the Iranian national guards in this battle, and was this anticipated by the government? How do we coordinate, or not, with the Iranian revolutionary guard's commanders in the operations in northern Iraq?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you. That's a very good question.

Mr. Chair, we have no intention of cooperating with IRG commanders. Our relationship there is at the invitation of the Republic of Iraq and also the Kurdish regional government. We are dealing most directly with Iraqi security force commanders and Kurdish peshmerga commanders.

Obviously Canada has many concerns about the nature and intentions of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and clearly we do not want our anti-ISIL mission, Operation Impact, to turn into a sectarian division within Iraq. We encourage the Iraqi government to work with all of its communities to ensure there's a unified front, including both Shia and Sunni, against the threat of ISIL.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

That is time, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Norlock, please.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and through you to the witnesses, thank you for attending today.

Minister Kenney, I'm going to try to be succinct, in the hopes that you will expand on the following question. I'm referring to Operation Reassurance. Why are we in eastern Europe? What assistance are we providing, along with our allies, to the good people of Ukraine and area, in terms of radar and satellite images, non-lethal equipment, and financial aid?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock.

Following Vladimir Putin's illegal defacto invasion of Ukraine, first with Crimea and laterally in parts of eastern Ukraine, Canada together with our NATO allies decided it was important to send a message, literally of reassurance, to our NATO allies, particularly those bordering on or in the proximity of Russia. One of the reasons for this is that Vladimir Putin has used the presence of a Russophone, ethnically Russian population in eastern Ukraine and Crimea as the pretext for his defacto invasion of those areas, claiming that he is protecting the interests of those minorities.

You will be aware that there are also Russian ethnic and Russian language-speaking minorities in other countries of eastern and central Europe, including most notably the Baltic countries, which have very limited ability to defend themselves against Russia given their small size and resources.

Consequently, it was the view of the alliance that we should together send a strong message of our determination to respect the alliance. Through a series of joint exercises, including one in which we are involved called Baltic air policing, we are sending... These are very small countries, the Baltic states. They have populations of under three million in each case. They don't have significant air assets. Baltic air policing, which is one dimension of Operation Reassurance, sends a message to the Russian air force and to Vladimir Putin that we are patrolling the skies over the Baltic states.

Our joint infantry training exercises in Poland, where we have some 250 Canadian infantry men and women, demonstrates our presence in the eastern side of Poland close to Russia, indicating that it is part of NATO territory, as does the presence of the HMCS Fredericton in the Black Sea. The Fredericton re-entered the Black Sea on Monday of this week. Immediately following that, two Russian naval vessels were tracking the movements of the Fredericton, and there were Russian jet fighters that, to use the colloquial expression, “buzzed”, or flew at low altitude over the Fredericton.

I think that's a success. The Russians know we are there as part of NATO. We're not going away, and the message is don't even think about further destabilizing, particularly the NATO areas of eastern and central Europe.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Could you talk a little bit about why we are increasing our assistance, in particular by sending radar images and satellite images, and why we have chosen the kind of aid we have, such as non-lethal equipment and financial aid?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Certainly.

The support provided to Ukraine by Canada that you have just mentioned is outside the context of Operation Reassurance, which is strictly within the NATO space. You've mentioned other support that have we provided bilaterally to our friends in Ukraine. Most recently, the Government of Canada signed a memorandum of understanding with Ukraine to provide images obtained from our RADARSAT-2 satellite in various sites of eastern Ukraine that can help the Ukrainian military command identify foreign movements, including heavy equipment, in eastern Ukraine. This is something that President Poroshenko specifically requested of us when he visited Ottawa in September.

Similarly, we provided several tonnes of non-kinetic military equipment in the fall, including Canadian Armed Forces surplus winter gear, which I understand has been hugely helpful to the Ukrainian forces, and non-kinetic equipment like night vision goggles. These things have, I believe, helped to save lives. We should also mention that we are actively exploring a number of potential training missions for Canadian forces in Ukraine, together with our allies in the United States. We have joined the contact group on military questions that the United States and the United Kingdom established with Ukraine. We are actively involved in scoping out possibilities for training missions there.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Since we're dealing with supplements, I noticed that Operation Reassurance is somewhere around $34 million in the supplementary category. I wonder if you could tell us what that encompasses. I noticed that some of the major costs are those that would be incurred in any operation, such as food and fuel. I wonder if you could comment on those costs.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Just to be clear, the supplementary (C) request for Operation Reassurance activities is $17 million, of which $13.3 million is for general costs, particularly ship operating costs, fuel and food for the Fredericton, and $3.7 million in contingency costs. Those are the major costs that we are seeking to cover in supplementary estimates (C).

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you.

I wonder if you could make a few short comments with regard to the discussion in the media surrounding economic sanctions as part of our total, shall we say, efforts to dissuade Mr. Putin from further expansion into eastern Europe. I wonder if you could talk about that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Briefly please.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Canada has been imposing sanctions on Russia, Russian companies, and individuals for several months, as well as on people closely associated with the regime who have been banned from travelling to Canada, and a number of Russian corporations that we believe are involved in what I would call the Russian military industrial complex. We've imposed financial sanctions on them and on some Russian banks that we believe have been involved, indirectly at least, in the de facto invasion of the Crimean eastern Ukraine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Murray, by the clock on the wall I would say, unfortunately, you have about four minutes, please.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay. I have seven minutes worth to ask, so I'll ask some later.

I just want some clarification about the supplementary C number of $122 million.

In your comments, you noted that Operation Impact consists of approximately 600 personnel. You then noted that we also have members of special operation forces, which implies that's in addition to the 600, whereas your note on February 19 said that these funds are for an average of 600. Is that to mean that the special operations forces are not included in the assessment of the supplementary incremental costs?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you. The 600 personnel that I referred to are associated with the RCAF air mission based in Kuwait. Then of course there's the additional 69 special ops personnel near Erbil. There is $8.8 million in personnel costs associated with the hardship and risk allowances, and $2.2 million in other personnel-related costs, such as incidentals, and ground transport of personnel, etc.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Yes, but this says it's for the 600. It does not say for the 600 and the special operations forces. I'm asking whether the incremental costs of the special operations forces are not in this $122 million.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

They are included. Both the SOF and RCAF dimensions of Operation Impact are included in the $122 million.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay, thank you.

Secondly, when do these incremental date from?