Evidence of meeting #60 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was deschamps.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay, thank you.
Major-General Whitecross, would you consider implementing an external review, such as the one that was just conducted by Madame Deschamps, on a regular basis so that these issues stay in the spotlight until such time as it's clear that the changes you're looking for have been made, or do you think the reviews are fine to do from within the organization?
5:05 p.m.
Commander, Canadian Armed Forces Strategic Response Team on Sexual Misconduct, Department of National Defence
Mr. Chair, I can tell you right now that the Australians actually do that. They have garnered the support of Madam Broderick throughout the process, so it's something we're looking at.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
You're considering that. Okay, great.
Going back briefly to the process, Madame Deschamps, the military ombudsman refused to participate in your review, I believe, and you found that none of those who went that route found it helpful.
When the ombudsman was at our committee after the Maclean's articles, I asked the ombudsman how many complaints he had received. He said that he was not the place to deal with those complaints; he turned them over to the military police. Also, I asked him what his record was of how many came in that he turned over, and even that wasn't being tracked.
What role, if any, do you think the ombudsman should have in relation to sexual misconduct complaints that may go into his office? Also, is there a structure of accountability or tracking that you think should happen?
5:10 p.m.
External Review Authority, As an Individual
In my report I say that he should not be referred to as an element of the solution for the victims. That's clear enough.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay, so people should know that's not where they go.
Going back to my concern about this initiating directive, when I read recommendation five, it refers to developing “a simple, broad definition of sexual harassment that effectively captures all dimensions of the member's relationship with the CAF.” However, when I look at the basis for the requirement that you were provided with by the CDS in this initiating directive, it says very clearly that the definition of harassment as developed by Treasury Board and reflected in DAOD 5012-0 will remain in effect.
Those are two different answers. How do you square that when this initiating directive is still in operation?
5:10 p.m.
Commander, Canadian Armed Forces Strategic Response Team on Sexual Misconduct, Department of National Defence
In recommendation five there are four or five different definitions that Madame Deschamps has asked to look for, and we're actually looking at every one of them. Also, I have the support of the CDS in doing that.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
That's time, Ms. Murray.
Thank you, Madam Justice Deschamps and General Whitecross, for your time with us today. You may well receive invitations from this committee in the future as you proceed with your action plan. We thank you again for sharing your time and expertise with us today.
The committee will now suspend as the room is cleared, and we will resume in closed session.
[Proceedings continue in camera]