National Defence Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Minister, my time is limited here—

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Your time is up, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Opitz.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and through you, thank you, Minister, for being here today and for your presentation.

It's very important that we take into account all the infrastructure that we do have. I praise the DART. They make Canada very proud and have highlighted to Canadians the multiple roles that Canadians perform around the world, whether it's peacekeeping, war fighting, or helping people in distress, like in the Philippines.

I'm also very happy to see General Thibault here today. I served on his staff in the past, and I'm delighted that he's with us today.

Minister, these are very complex issues in your estimates, so I'm going to give you a two-part question. We really need to drill down, and Canadians need to understand what's in the estimates for them.

Sir, could you speak to how these investments overall are going to improve the readiness of the Canadian Armed Forces?

As well, can you also speak to how our role has now changed in Afghanistan. The combat role is over and we're about to conclude the training mission shortly.

Can you also speak to how the current fiscal climate is informing the decisions of our government?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm tempted to pose a question to General Thibault to ask him how Colonel Opitz was, but this is not the time or place for that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

My PER has been signed, sir.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, these estimates, as you'll see when you're studying them, will show a breakdown of the different components that are a priority for the armed forces. Some of them are expected, but they all contribute to making sure that Canada is ready and able to undertake the tasks that are given to it.

I mentioned briefly our role in the Philippines, and to be able to move that quickly underlines the improvement in the capabilities and the readiness of our armed forces. Literally within hours our teams were being assembled, and they were on their way to help in that particular disaster.

When you go over the breakdown of what we're looking for in these estimates, you will see things such as maintenance and repairs for Cormorant readiness, Chinook readiness, maintenance and repairs for land readiness, maritime readiness, the joint support team. That's to make sure we have the men and women, the equipment, and the ability to get there. Nobody wants to go back to the days when there was a problem somewhere in the world and we had to hitch a ride with somebody. Nobody wants to do that.

When I was at our base in Trenton a couple of weeks ago, to see that C-17 aircraft ready and the people who are willing and ready to support the people of the Philippines.... I think it fills all of us with a great sense of pride and a certain amount of satisfaction that we can be there to do that.

When you go through these estimates and you see the breakdown of the money, again, you will see that much of it is directed towards making sure we are able to maintain that capability, so we don't go back to the days when we're not ready or that we're asking favours of our friends.

Going back to the overall question, Mr. Chair, these are reasonable estimates. I know they're looked at very carefully between the Department of National Defence and the members of our armed forces, to see that these are the funds that we need to continue that. I think they're very reasonable and very supportable.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you for that, Minister.

I was one of those guys who had to hitch a ride back in the day, and my knees and my ankles will tell you how bad some of the equipment was.

I'd like you to elaborate on the importance of the fact that we do have to stay well equipped, stay ahead of the equipment curve, and we have to ensure our troops have the right equipment for the theatres they may be called on to operate in.

I'd like you to discuss the need for looking forward, 10 years, 20 years, and sometimes even 25 or more years. What interested me in your presentation as well is that I don't think a lot of people quite understand the size of the infrastructure we have. You talked about the property, the sewer systems; in effect, those are small cities that we run.

Could you elaborate on that, please?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes. Again, making sure that we have the equipment to support our men and women is absolutely vital, and you've made a very good point.

We have had a number of successes in the procurement area. I mentioned the C-17s, the Hercules aircraft, light armoured vehicle upgrades, medium to heavy-lift helicopters—those are what we have successfully delivered to the armed forces.

Going back to my meeting in Halifax this past weekend, we were right next door to the shipyards that are undertaking the shipbuilding program on the east coast, and there is one, of course, on the west coast. All of these are contributing to that readiness that you talked about that, quite frankly, was absent a number of years ago.

Yes, we have to continuously look at these and try to move forward, to make sure the men and women in our armed forces have the equipment they need.

Again, there are challenges. Procurement is a big file, needless to say. We've had these challenges, but there have been successes. I mentioned a number of those successes. Again, the reports I get back with respect to the shipbuilding programs on both coasts of this country are underlying that concern for capability for our men and women who serve our armed forces. This is what we have to have, and we have to continue in that vein.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Murray, please.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

I want to also add my words of welcome to the new minister in his portfolio and to reinforce the previous comments of the importance of the department and our Canadian Armed Forces to the collective security and defence of our country and our playing our part abroad.

One of the challenges the minister has, of course, is that the Canada First defence strategy talks about stable and increasing funding as being foundational to the whole strategy, and he is dealing with budget reductions and budget cuts, contrary to the foundation of that strategy. Trying to understand how that may be impacting some of the goals....

I'm looking at the funding that's being requested of $400 million to support the ongoing implementation of the Canada First defence strategy, talking about equipment. The question I have has to do with the closed combat vehicle project. It was announced four and a half years ago in 2009. The minister of the day said we owe it to Canadian soldiers to give them the protective equipment they need to do the job we've asked them to do.

Two billion dollars was budgeted for the 108 CCVs. They were intended to be arriving in 2012, and of course that's not the case. Currently there is uncertainty about this project.

Can the minister confirm whether that project is a go or not?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you for your welcome to the committee.

I'd be glad to address comments with respect to the Canada First defence strategy.

With respect to the equipment, as you gather, I'm sure, from the previous answer, we're committed to getting our men and women in uniform the equipment they need—of course at the best value for taxpayers. I can tell you on this, as with a number of the procurement projects, that we're continuing to work on this particular project, and when announcements are made, I'll make an announcement. That being said, we continue to work on them, but I thank you for your comments on that.

With respect to the Canada First defence strategy, you will see—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I appreciate that. As the minister appreciates, time is short.

Was that a confirmation that the closed combat vehicle project is still a go and there will be an announcement of the winning bidder on that project? If so, when?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, all I can tell you is that we continue to work with Public Works on this project—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

So the project hasn't been cancelled?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, if and when any announcements are made, I will make announcements on those, but again—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay. So you have no comment.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

—as with a number of these procurement issues, they continue to be worked on. As you know, and you would be aware of, we work very closely with Public Works on these things.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

So continuing to work on it means that this is still an active project and that the announcement will come in due course?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

All announcements come in due course, Ms. Murray, as you know. Again, I think I have been very clear, hopefully.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay. Well, it could be clearer, Minister.

I'm going to go to your comments about support for ill and injured, and of course around the committee we all have a genuine concern, as does the minister and your staff.

In the ombudsman's recent mental health report, the ombudsman is saying that the national defence minister “has not hired enough psychiatrists and other mental health professionals to deal with the cresting tide of post-traumatic stress cases”. Doubling the funding, as the minister mentioned, we know does not reflect the increase in actual challenges with PTSD coming out of an operational theatre. There's “a big gap between what the system can deliver and what it actually does for the troops” and “this shortfall has a profound impact on front line delivery of care”. This is all from the ombudsman.

The system is operating with 15% to 22% fewer caregivers than needed and there are significant bureaucratic problems, time delays, etc. I could give examples of particular JPSUs in which there are woefully inadequate numbers of support persons to the number of injured who are requiring care.

Could the minister tell us in these estimates how many registered medical professionals are being increased to address the shortfall the ombudsman has identified?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Some of those details are a matter for the Surgeon General, but you did point out the Joint Personnel Support Unit. This is actually something that was put together by this government. I think everyone who has been associated with this will know that this is a definite improvement.

You did mention the ombudsman. The ombudsman said that of the support for military families, there has been more support than ever before and that it “has been elevated to a top institutional priority”.

Needless to say, we have to continue to work to support those men and women and their families who find themselves in a position of difficulty. Again, I want to give you as many details as possible. Perhaps I might turn it to the vice-chief, General Thibault, to give some of the particulars of it. But I agree with you that this is and will continue to be a priority.

Yes, there is more investment. There are more health care professionals. Yes, we look very favourably when you compare us to all our NATO allies, but as I always say, we may be the best in the world, but we have to continue to get better.

General Thibault.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

A very short answer or contribution, please, General.

[LGen Guy R. Thibault, Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Murray, thank you for the question. Certainly there is $25 million in the supplementary estimates that will go directly to continuing to augment the capacity we have at these Joint Personnel Support Units. As you know, these are integrated with VAC and DND. It's providing complex care.

Of course, we are very concerned about the capacity we have—we've been affected, as have all government departments, by making sure that we are in fact living within the means we have. In this particular area, the decisions have been made to increase the capacity to deal with some of the shortfalls we have, and some of the funding in these supplementary estimates is destined to do just that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, General.

We'll now move into our second round of questioning, with five-minute segments.

Mr. Norlock, please.